James Squire Hop Thief 6 - Extract

[paulyman]

Hi all,

I'm only 4 months in, 4 or 5 K&K under the belt. Just used IanH's spreadsheet to try my first extract brew aiming for a Hop Thief 6 clone. Just bottled and it looks close in colour and taste, obviously not quite the punchy dry hopped smell of commercial hop thief, but its not lacking that's for sure. I'm quite chuffed, can't wait until its carbonated and I can do a proper side by side.

Using the spreadsheet as a guide I came up with the following:

2KG LDME
1KG DDME (Dark dry malt extract, is that the correct acronym?)
0.5 KG Caramunich 2

5g Columbus + 5g Simcoe at 20 minutes
20g Columbus + 20g Simcoe at 5 minutes
30g Columbus + 30g Simcoe at 0 minutes
35g Columbus + 35g Simcoe dry hopped on day 5.

Predicted FG of 1053 and OG of 1013. Actual FG of 1014 so I'm impressed with the spreadsheet!

 

[paulyman]

Also,

Please, please add any criticisms. I'm still a newbie and would love to take on board the input from the more experienced.

 

[brzt6060]

Hi all,

I'm only 4 months in, 4 or 5 K&K under the belt. Just used IanH's spreadsheet to try my first extract brew aiming for a Hop Thief 6 clone. Just bottled and it looks close in colour and taste, obviously not quite the punchy dry hopped smell of commercial hop thief, but its not lacking that's for sure. I'm quite chuffed, can't wait until its carbonated and I can do a proper side by side.

Welcome to the forum pal!

Using the spreadsheet as a guide I came up with the following:

2KG LDME
1KG DDME (Dark dry malt extract, is that the correct acronym?)
0.5 KG Caramunich 2

I'm a little confused by what you have brewed,

Is that, 2KG Light Dry Malt Extract 1KG Dark Dry Malt Extract and water?

5g Columbus + 5g Simcoe at 20 minutes
20g Columbus + 20g Simcoe at 5 minutes
30g Columbus + 30g Simcoe at 0 minutes
35g Columbus + 35g Simcoe dry hopped on day 5.

I won't get into it too much, but according to the JS website the hops for hop thief 6 are:
Dr Rudi, Cascade, Motueka, Mosaic, Simcoe, Columbus

Have you done any bittering Hops?

Also what yeast did you use?

Predicted FG of 1053 and OG of 1013. Actual FG of 1014 so I'm impressed with the spreadsheet!

I think you have the FG and OG around the wrong way?

Edit: I will give you some more feed back later, I have a really sore head at the moment.

 

[Blind Dog]

Website says No6 is Built around Simcoe with a little Columbus. Maybe the other hops were used in previous iterations? It's on my glass now and I'm not tasting anything but Simcoe and what I assume is Columbus.

 

[brzt6060]

Website says No6 is Built around Simcoe with a little Columbus. Maybe the other hops were used in previous iterations? It's on my glass now and I'm not tasting anything but Simcoe and what I assume is Columbus.

That aside you're not concerend about the fact that all he has in the beer is 2KG LDME 1KG DDME and then only 20 minute, 5 Minute and 0 Minute hops?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

That beer will not turn out as hoped....

 

[paulyman]

I steeped the caramunic for 20 minutes in 1L of 70 degree water and then strained with 1L of water as directed by the spreadsheet.

I added the 2L of water from the steep to make up a 10L boil following the spreadsheet on how much light dry malt to add to the water to get it to 1040 for the boil.

I turned off the hop concentration factor and with those hop additions the IBU came out at 22 according to the spreadsheet, I'm starting to think I've miss understood a difference between IBU and actual bitterness? It seemed to have some bitterness when I tried it.

I cooled the wort in an ice bath and then added it along with the remainder of the 2KG of light dry malt, and the 1 KG of dark dry malt to the fermenter. Topped up to 23 litres. I added US05 yeast and sealed up to ferment.

I did mix up the OG and FG.

 

[Blind Dog]

That aside you're not concerend about the fact that all he has in the beer is 2KG LDME 1KG DDME and then only 20 minute, 5 Minute and 0 Minute hops?

No idea on the extract. Too many years and too many beers since I used extract to make any meaningful contribution to that side of things. Hopping schedule didn't worry me overly as I had no idea how it would work in an extract recipe. So the only thing I could meaningfully comment on was the type of hops. Wasn't meant to be a dig at you, just happened to be drinking it at the time

 

[shacked]

Hey mate,

Your process looks pretty sound, however at an ibu in the low 20's your beer is going to end up a little light on bitterness. At a guess, the JS would have an ibu that's probably twice what your beer will have.

Your hop additions should give you bitterness, flavour and aroma. To generalise, bittering hops are added to the boil at anywhere from 60 to 30 mins; flavour at around 30 to 20 and aroma from 20 to 0 to dry. There are certain hops that work better for bittering, some that are better for flavour and some that work for both. The timings are also not set in stone either.

Check this out: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-1.html

If you like hoppy beers, have a look at the feral hop hog clone thread on here and give one of those recipes a go!

Cheers!!

 

[paulyman]

Thanks for the info and feedback Shacked. I'm glad the process seems right, if the worst I've done is the creation of an under bittered beer I can live with that. I can fix that next brew.

I'll read through the info you have me and try again.

 

[paulyman]

Oh, and I went and grabbed a four pack of Hop Hog to try, thanks for that info as well.

 

[shacked]

One last thing, I generally add the balance of my malts / adjuncts 5 mins before the end of the boil.

Keep us posted on this batch mate. Enjoy the hop hog!!

 

[paulyman]

Wow, hop hog is amazing! I'll definitely look at the recipes on here!

Just tried a bottle of my batch, only slightly carbed of course, but though I'd try one. The colour is good. A little bitterness, but way too sweet! Lots of hop flavour and a bit of aroma. Although I do like the maltiness, just needs that bitterness to back it up.

Next batch I will do a 60 minute addition as suggested. Looking at the info provided and the forums here. How does magnum sound as a bittering hop?

 

[shacked]

Yup, the HH is a nice drop!!

Magnum would be good. Citra and Centennial also work well.

 

[brzt6060]

Wow, hop hog is amazing! I'll definitely look at the recipes on here!

Just tried a bottle of my batch, only slightly carbed of course, but though I'd try one. The colour is good. A little bitterness, but way too sweet! Lots of hop flavour and a bit of aroma. Although I do like the maltiness, just needs that bitterness to back it up.

Next batch I will do a 60 minute addition as suggested. Looking at the info provided and the forums here. How does magnum sound as a bittering hop?

Hop Hog is good but if you want the same but better try and find founders all day session IPA.

Glad the beer is drinkable... I just want to check and see as you said it was really sweet that you did have a stable gravity for 3 days before botterlig didn't you? Don't want any bottle bombs.

 

[paulyman]

Will look out for All Day IPA.

The gravity was stable for 3 days, I actually left it for nearly a week after the second reading as I got side tracked with work.

 

[paulyman]

I am making Tony's James Squire Amber Ale recipe next, I will play it safe on the next batch.

I have been playing with the spreadsheet and made two changes, I've dropped the dark malt and gone with just 3 kg of LDME and added 10g of Magnum at 60 minutes.

• 3 kg LDME
• 0.5 kg CaraMunich 2
• 90g Simcoe
• 90g Columbus
• 10g Magnum
• US05 Yeast

I will do a 10L boil with 827g LDME added to get the BG to a predicted 1.040. The hop schedule will be:

• 10g Magnum at 60 minutes
• 5g Simcoe and 5g Columbus at 20 minutes
• 20g Simcoe and 20g Columbus at 5 minutes
• 30g Simcoe and 30g Columbus at 0 minutes
• 35g Simcoe and 35g Columbus dry hopped around day 5 depending on when fermentation dies down.

The spreadsheet estimates an OG of 1.053 and an FG of 1.013. An IBU of 37.2 and an EBC of 19.7.

This will be a fair bit lighter in colour than the last batch, too light. But I felt I should keep the changes to a minimum to see how they affect it.

How do those changes sound?

 

[paulyman]

Oh, and the batch size will still be 23L.

 

[Natsta]

I will be trying something similar this weekend. Posted on the all grain thread but better I post here. Thinking of doing a similar hops scheule to yours above but in the interest of being a tight bastard I want to throw in some prehopped cans just to get the bittering up. I'll be doing 45L so here is what i'm thinking.

1 x Coopers Draught
1 x Coopers Lager
2.5kg LDM
1.2kg Caramunich
1kg Carared
80g Columbus
80g Simcoe

10L boil with;

10g Simcoe and 10g Columbus at 20 minutes
15g Simcoe and 15g Columbus at 5 minutes
20g Simcoe and 20g Columbus at 0 minutes
35g Simcoe and 35g Columbus dry hopped

Should be about 46 IBU's with an OG of 1.052.

I am hoping to get that beautiful red colour so hopefully the Caramunich and Carared will have some effect.

 

[Natsta]

Slight change for mine. Dropped the carared after chatting with my LHBS and going with 50g of roasted barley. Caramunich will be 1kg. I'm also thinking of doubling the simcoe amount.

How did your second attempt go paulyman?

 

[paulyman]

Haven't tried a second attempt yet. Will be brewing an amber ale during the week, and will try the second attempt once that is bottled. Let us know how the batch turns out Natsta.

 

[paulyman]

Have you attempted your brew yet Natsta?

My Amber Ale is coming along nicely, first attempt at rehydrating the yeast before hand, usually just sprinkle it into the fermentor. Wow, I'm used to working with Sourdough starters, so this stuff is amazingly active!

I bought some extracts in the Coopers free shipping deal so will probably adjust my recipe to stay at 25-30 EBC (which seemed right colour wise) and 5.0 ABV. I am intrigued by the concept of a 10 minute APA so may play with that as well, although reading the All Grain thread they suggest 20 minute additions. So I may adjust my 20 minute additions to get to the 40 IBU Shacked suggested and try that without the 60 minute Magnum addition. (Not that the All Grainers were recommending all late additions, I'm just curious).

I guess if I muff it up again its only me drinking it.

 

[Natsta]

Yep. It's on it's way. Took a gravity reading on Sunday to see how things were going. The smell is certainly similar but didn't have a JS HP6 on hand to compare. The taste is lacking yet but I still have my dry hop to go so hopefully that brings it on par with the HP6. I made some late changes to the final recipe I used and will post it up at a later date but the IBU's ended up really close to 40 and I think this is about right for this clone. The colour seems a little light but I'll jist have to wait it out to see how far out.

 

[BlueMutt]

Hop Hog is good but if you want the same but better try and find founders all day session IPA.

Glad the beer is drinkable... I just want to check and see as you said it was really sweet that you did have a stable gravity for 3 days before botterlig didn't you? Don't want any bottle bombs.

I tried a Founders Centennial IPA from a can after a service job at the local Pub, it motivated me to brew a batch the same week. Will be in the keg this weekend, samples are as good as I have done.
Simple, Pilsner malt 95% Crystal 5% Simcoe @60 Centennial @30 and 0

 

[Natsta]

Based on colour and aroma this may come somewhere very close to a hop thief. I did my dry hop today and drew a sample to check progress. More bitter than the original but the dry hop should cover some of that. So far I think it's on track. I need this for the weekend on 13th so pushing a little faster than I prefer. 4 weeks total from boil to keg. Hopefully by then it's shining.

 

[Natsta]

Oh and the left is the clone beside the original JS HT6 on the right just in case anyone was wondering.

 

[paulyman]

Looks really good. What was the recipe you ended up going with?

My next batch arrived today, so will be brewing another batch soon. Will keep you posted.

 

[Natsta]

The brew was 45 litres so half it for a standard 23 litre brew. Next attempt will have some of the LDM replaced with LME since I found the sweetness seems low and HT6 has that suttle sweetness.​

​

As follows;​

​

Steep in 3.5litres at 65-70;​

1kg x Caramunich 3​

50gm x Roasted Barley​

​

30 mins steep time​

Sparge grains with an additional 3.5litres and top up to 11 litres for a 30 min boil​

​

Columbus x 10g @ 20 Mins​

Simcoe x 15g @ 20 Mins​

Columbus x 15g @ 5 Mins​

Simcoe x 40g @ 5 Mins​

​

Columbus x 20g @ Flameout​

Simcoe x 25g @ Flamout​

Columbus x35g @ Dryhop 7 days​

Simcoe x 80g @ Dryhop 7 days​

​

2x Coopers Lager cans​

2.5kg LDM added at end of boil​

​

I forgot to add the LDM during boil so wacked it all in at the end. Like I said, this is a little heavy on the bitters (not by much) but should reduce over the next week or so. Also needs a little unfermentable sugar to add to it but who knows? It's not finished yet....​

 

[paulyman]

I put the second batch down yesterday. Had to make some changes as craft brewer were out of magnum when I ordered.

Not too different to Natsta's recipe.

Went with:

2.5 kg LDME
450 g medium Crystal
300 g caramunich 2
30 g roasted barley
100 g dextrose (to get to 5% ABV)

10 g Simcoe @ 20
25 g Columbus @ 20
10 g Simcoe @ 5
5 g Columbus @ 5
25 g Simcoe @ 0
15 g Columbus @ 0

Made up to 23 L @ 18 degrees.

US05 pitched and fermenting at 18 degrees.

SG 1048 expecting FG of 1012 and ABV of 5.1%. Ian's spreadsheet predicts an EBC of 29 and IBU of 41.

Will dry hop on day 8 or there abouts depending on how fermentation goes.

 

[paulyman]

BlueMutt that sounds nice. Keep us posted.