It Happened Again

[agraham]

Fellow Brrewers,

I tasted my batch of german lager that i have fermenting in the garage tonight and was shocked to find it had a weird woody medicinal taste. It was 4.5 kg pils and 500g munich type 1.

I am at a loss to describe why this has happened, as I have gotten the same taste from a kolsch i did with a different yeast 2 or so brews ago....

If anything my processes and procedures have more than improved since my earlier all grain days, when i was using two 19ltr stockpots to make the brew, i now have a converted 50 lt keg.

I am resigned to tipping 20 or so litres of beer down the drain....The only thing i can think of is that i am over sparging with my brews.....

My fermentors get a soak of bleach before i use them, i chill to around 30 degrees before i transfer from the keg to the fermentor, i smell the yeast starter before i pitch....

Any help greatly appreciated, as its a big effort to get a brew done, and so disappointing to put it down the drain.

Thanks!

Andrew

 

[Darren]

AG,

Hope you haven't tipped it yet. Might take a bit of time to come good.

Did you use Saaz hops?

cheers

Darren

 

[berapnopod]

If you tip the stuff down the drain I fear that you will have failed with the beer (happens sometimes), but not learnt anything from it (a disaster). How will you know that you won't get the problem again???

First of all, you can get all sorts of funky smells and tastes during fermentation. They are normal and they disappear with time. Secondly, you can get all sorts of funky smells and tastes in fermentation that do not dissipate with time. They are not normal and signify a problem. How can you tell between them?

If you find that the problem does not go away with time, then I suggest take it to a local homebrew club and get some other people to taste it and see if they can identify it. Or try a homebrew competition. In a good competition, the judges will be able to tell what a problem is (thats part of why you're paying them).

Whatever you do, get as many opinions as you can to identify the problem. Hopefully there will be a consensus out there and you will have solved the problem.

Berp.

 

[MHB]

Agraham
A medicinal taste can come form Chlorine, or more precisely chlorine compounds like Chloramines.
Plastic is a lot less of a solid than people think, when you are using bleach the free Chlorine can soak into the plastic, and later diffuse back out and screw your brew.

As a rule if you soak in bleach, allow the fermenter a couple of days to respire any Chlorine, alternatively a day in the sun will do the trick.

Rinse out with peroxide sanitiser or Sodium Meta Bisulphate (SO2) before use.

Hope this helps

MHB

 

[PistolPatch]

MHB, your reply has got me thinking. We had a brew day a little while ago at someone's place and tasted their wort. I'd never known what the, 'medicinal,' smell meant until then. Ross reckoned, like you, that it was from bleach whilst I thought it was because the brewer had used his wife's sock as a dry hopping sock!

Perhaps when using bleach or your wife's socks both should be aired for several days?

 

[Darren]

One easy way to experience chlorophenol taste (if you really want to) is to take a bottle of "white King" or your fave chlorinated cleaner. Put a few drops in a glass. Pour yourself a beer (not in the same glass). Have a sniff of the chlorine then immediately taste the beer. Bandaid plus!

cheers

Darren

 

[Voosher]

I'd blame the bleach.
I used to use it for cleaning and ortho-phos for santising.
A couple of batches had a horrible taint, similar to the medicinal taint you're experiencing. It does fade over time, but not completely.
If you want to continue using bleach, make sure you rinse with hot water prior to use.
Alternatively, switch to percarbonate cleaners like Napisan. Less chance of taint from most reports. I've not had a problem since I switched, but I still make sure of thorough rinsing with hot water.

 

[vlbaby]

MHB, your reply has got me thinking. We had a brew day a little while ago at someone's place and tasted their wort. I'd never known what the, 'medicinal,' smell meant until then. Ross reckoned, like you, that it was from bleach whilst I thought it was because the brewer had used his wife's sock as a dry hopping sock!

Perhaps when using bleach or your wife's socks both should be aired for several days?

his wifes' socks! yuck!
He must have been trying to brew some fosters or something. :lol:


vl.

 

[agraham]

Thanks for the replies fellas.

Chlorine could be the culprit, however I did rinse the fermentor pretty well prior to use...maybe need to let it sit for a day or two to get rid of the smell.

I am tempted to take a sample down to G & G and see what they reckon the problem is.

The last time i have this taste, which is terrible may i add, I racked the finished brew and waited for it to dissapate, which it did not.

Do you think i should use nappisan to clean my fermentors instead?

What do you guys use?

 

[Darren]

Napisan is a cleaner not a sanitiser.

Chlorine is fine as a sanitiser so long as you are not trying to sanitise stainless steel (it corrodes it).
Just need to make sure you rinse it well.

As said before, the chlorine in your tap water will also cause "bandaid".

cheers

Darren

 

[PistolPatch]

My goodness Darren! Just did your test above and that's a pretty good approximation of the 'bandaid' smell! Prior to trying that I wouldn't have associated that smell with bleach. Now, I'm really worried!

I do rinse my gear out with hot water but after your comments, Ross's and MHB's post above I'm wondering if I'm 'gradually' infecting my beer???

Your taste test above Darren, reminds me of something similiar I discovered a couple of years ago. Next time you eat a kiwifruit, think of passionfruit. It's all you'll taste. Weird!

Thanks for the heads up on bleach guys!

 

[razz]

MHB, your reply has got me thinking. We had a brew day a little while ago at someone's place and tasted their wort. I'd never known what the, 'medicinal,' smell meant until then. Ross reckoned, like you, that it was from bleach whilst I thought it was because the brewer had used his wife's sock as a dry hopping sock!

Perhaps when using bleach or your wife's socks both should be aired for several days?

his wifes' socks! yuck!
He must have been trying to brew some fosters or something. :lol:


vl.

Too true vlbay, too true ! :lol:

 

[Mr Bond]

Well(flame suit on) here is my story.
Brewed for years K'N'K,extracts with all the paranoia about infections.
Gradually relaxed to a point of complacency and got myself a dose of acetobacter(brewers clap) that wiped out 3 brews .
Took a break,cleaned everything from aresole to breakfast and started again.
Read up heaps, did some trials (kits n bits)) and relaunched the brau house.

Current and to date successful method is simply wash all fermentor with cold water 3 times (no detergent).
Soak for 1to3 days with bleach solution(home brand,whatever is on special) bleach,sodium hypochlorite solution.
Dump,rinse twice with cold water and air dry for 2 days in the sun.Seal and leave until brew day.
On brew day,rinse again with cold water and then sterilise with boiling water from kettle.Put in boiling water and cap loosely and swirl until steam/pressure builds ,and crack slightly to allow steam to escape whilst swirling.dump water and fill with wort.(I don't leave it in until plastic goes spongy either,and don't get any plasticy elements to my beers)
This method is as close as natural(I'm not a hippy) as i can get without using surfactant laden phos type sanitisers, that i have found.
I'm not advocating it as the perfect/bulletproof system,but it has worked fine for a tight arse like me for the past 18 months with no infections or funky flavas to report.

Brau(feel free to shoot me down)luver

 

[matti]

Sound like myself about cleaning my friend.
I clean the fermentor with lukewarm water and some mighty efficient detergent after use. then i rinse twice detaching every rim, plug o ring tap etc and soak in sanitizer in fermentor until next session. a day prior to brew day I rinse fermentor out thoroughly and rinse out with sterilised water. have been know to use Milton anti bacterial solution to sterilize and keep utensil and brew gear ultra sterile. Always rinse of with boiled water though.
And i though making great beer was simple.LOL
Matti the swede

 

[T.D.]

Do you think i should use nappisan to clean my fermentors instead?

What do you guys use?

I use napisan to clean my fermenters and cubes and I can't recommend it enough. They come up squeaky clean and the whole process requires basically no elbow grease at all - just let it soak for a day or two.

But as Darren said, Napisan is just a cleaner - you'll need a sanatiser as well (I use Iodophor). I haven't had any funky flavours or smells during the time I have used Napisan.

 

[Aussie Claret]

I've never used the wife's socks PP, her knickers well that's another matter especially the lacey ones (great filters, Ooopps thats another thread). LOL

After Ross's advise I've steered clear of using chlorine based sanitisers and all good so far. Napisan and no rinse sanitiser from now on and no problems since.

I'd concurr with everything that has been said regarding bleach, keep it well and truely clear of any plastic fermenter.

AC

 

[colinw]

My early AG brews were plagued with this problem, until I did two things.

1. Started dechlorinating all my strike & sparge water with a pinch of sodium met.
2. Switched to Iodophor for sanitising.

I got a further improvement by paying more attention to sparge pH and gravity of last runnings, but that is another story. Suffice it to say that my early AGs which combined a bit of over-sparge astringency with chlorine were nearly enough to send me back to extract brewing.

I still use bleach if I think the fermenter is getting a bit skanky, but it then gets a good long airing and a rinse with sodium met. Brew day sanitisation is all iodophor at the lower end of concentration.

Strangely topping up with chlorinated town water never seemed to bother my kit brews in the early days when I wasn't using any specialty grains or hops (just kit bitterness). I think it must be the combination of chlorine and tannins in hops and grains.

Bleach has no place in normal brew-day sanitisation. It should be reserved as a tactical nuke for clearing out infections, and only then if you can't solve it with new tubes, taps, etc.

 

[Jens-Kristian]

To be honest, I don't think bleach belongs anywhere near something you are about to ingest. Actually I feel that way about it in drinking water, too, which I suppose is the main reason why there are very few places I like the drinking water. We have our own well here though, meaning there's none of that.

Chlorine is bad. Really bad.

Now, I am not a health freak or generally very fussy about these things - I both smoke and drink. However, there are just as good alternatives to bleach and when it comes to taste they are certainly superior.

My procedure is as follows: I actually always leave the yeast slurry in my fermenter after emptying it of beer. The fermenter gets re-sealed and left. I've had them sit like that for more than a month and when I've re-opened them the smell was . . .yeasty and with a bit of alcohol in them. Nothing that is anywhere near a bad smell. The funny side to it, is that the fermenter is actually extremely easy to clean after this. I do this while mashing. I empty it out in the bathtub, fill it with cold water from the tap, give it a good scrub with a soft brush and after that it is 'clean' from any residue from last brew. Rinse once or twice with cold water. I then add a couple of litres of boiling water, put lid on and shake. Go over it with the brush again so that any oils are washed off. Then cold water with iodophor, shake fermenter and leave it there until I'm halfway through the boil. Empty out, rince with cold water, bring it into the kitchen, pour in a couple more litres of boiling water and shake it. Seal afterwards. Just before pouring in the wort (I do this hot) I empty out the water. I cool the wort in my fermenter.

I've had no problems at all.

Cheers,

Jens-Kristian

 

[colinw]

I'm the opposite. As soon as I've kegged and harvested any yeast, the fermenter gets a good clean out with just warm water and an enjo cloth.

 

[devo]

use idophor my friend. It's excellent stuff, easy to use, long lasting and won't impart any flavour on your carefully crafted brews.