Irish Moss?

Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum

Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

kiwisteveo

Well-Known Member
Joined
28/9/09
Messages
122
Reaction score
3
still fairly new to this game so this will be a dumb ass question,have seen a few recipes with irish moss in them so what is it,i'm guessing thats it's not cough syrup,looked on a sponsors site and got the impression that its used for clearing beer(finnings)so is it the same as whirfloc?and do i need it as extract brewing(only doing 5L boils) and dont mind a bit of sediment as long as they taste good,any info appreciated cheers.
 
Its not the furry stuff on your teeth the next morning after St Patricks day celebrations.
 
As far as I know it is seaweed used as a fining agent. Put it in the last 15 minutes of the boil for clear beer. I guess it is not used as much down there as it is in the USA. Would not be with out it for any but wheat beers that are supposed to be cloudy.
 
Nearly all the 'floc' products such as Whirlfloc are based on Irish Moss = Carrageenan. Helps the proteins in the boiling wort clump together and flocculate. I wouldn't be without it. Carrageenan is used for lots of other things including Alien Saliva in movies.
 
Possibly dumb question - is there any point to kettle finings if you are not chilling and/or whirlpooling?
 
how much do you add? I've got a scam bag of it and I don't know how much to put in, just like a little sprinkle? or the whole bag?
 
how much do you add? I've got a scam bag of it and I don't know how much to put in, just like a little sprinkle? or the whole bag?
says on mine something like "a teaspoon per 20L boiled, added at 15min before end of boil"
 
Possibly dumb question - is there any point to kettle finings if you are not chilling and/or whirlpooling?


it will aid in coagulation of hot break in the bottom of your kettle. Personally i dont use it anymore, havnt noticed any differences in clarity with or without it. storage of beer seems to be fine too.
 
it will aid in coagulation of hot break in the bottom of your kettle.
That was my understanding, and the reason I'm thinking it's a waste if you no-chill is that:
a) The convection of the hot wart will prevent ANYTHING settling on the bottom, so even if the break does coagulate better, it's still getting into the cube
b ) The rough and ready way I pour the cube into the fermenter (it aids oxygenation, don't ya know!) means anything that settles in the cube is still getting into the fermenter
c) Giving plenty of time in the fermenter, plus finings into the fermenter and crash chilling will mean that everything will settle out anyway

All of which leaves (by my logic) the kettle finings as being a bit of a waste (if you are no chilling!). Unless you're concerned about clear wort going into the fermenter, which other then pride seems to be of negligable benefit...

But I'm still a nooby, so all of this could quite probably be wrong. Which is why I asked :)
 
I use Whirlfloc to settle out the crud in the urn as quickly as possible. Because I no-chill, I want the wort as hot as possible into the cube, and I find that the hot break flocs out in around 15 minutes (with the lid on the urn of course) - and the wort is still good and hot into the cube to sanitise it.

OK - genuine BribieG recycled photo: :icon_cheers:

I usually take a glass or two out of the urn to 'clear the throat' of the tap. Not wasted, I let them settle overnight in a flask and drain off the clear stuff to use in the yeast starter for the brew.

Here's a pic of glass #1 and glass#2 and as you can see, after drawing off just a couple of small glasses the break material has flocced well down below the tap level, and clear wort will then go into the cube.

runoff_wort_1__Medium_.jpg
 
Thanks for the info BribieG. I'll take in on board. I was perhaps being a bit paranoid, as I start draining into the cube the instant I turn off the heat.

The first few AG brews that I did kettle fine, I let them sit for a few minutes (5 minutes, give or take), but the convection going on in there indicated that the settling was not about to happen any time soon. You're post indicates that I may have been wrong on this.

(And I leave some starsan in the cube and give it a shake whenever I notice it, so my paranoia about getting it in ASAP is probably excessive!)
 
Yes i do as bribie does.

I finish the boil, flame off and cover with pot lid. Take the pot inside (with assistance) and dump onto kitchen bench, whirlpool then rest for 10 mins. Pop the lid and if i see no break rolling around, shes good to rack into my cube. :icon_cheers:
 
That was my understanding, and the reason I'm thinking it's a waste if you no-chill is that:
a) The convection of the hot wart will prevent ANYTHING settling on the bottom, so even if the break does coagulate better, it's still getting into the cube
b ) The rough and ready way I pour the cube into the fermenter (it aids oxygenation, don't ya know!) means anything that settles in the cube is still getting into the fermenter
c) Giving plenty of time in the fermenter, plus finings into the fermenter and crash chilling will mean that everything will settle out anyway

All of which leaves (by my logic) the kettle finings as being a bit of a waste (if you are no chilling!). Unless you're concerned about clear wort going into the fermenter, which other then pride seems to be of negligable benefit...

But I'm still a nooby, so all of this could quite probably be wrong. Which is why I asked :)

The whirlfoc coagulates the proteins pretty quickly. You can see them in the wort - whirlpooling brings them into solution again but then they cone into the centre and drop out. When you rack into the cube, you leave most of it behind (unless you insist on pouring the sludge into the cube - I always put in a little because supposedly some of the proteins are good for head formation but I leave the majority behind.

@OP - pretty sure there's no need to use with a kit as it's already been done in the manufacture. I believe it's the same with extracts but I'm not going to say I'm 100 % certain.
 
That was my understanding, and the reason I'm thinking it's a waste if you no-chill is that:

c) Giving plenty of time in the fermenter, plus finings into the fermenter and crash chilling will mean that everything will settle out anyway

No not really a waist. I use it in the kettle and do nothing in the fermentor or keg and get clear beer.

You do it in the fermentor and/or keg.

You may be missing something as I am sure it is recommended to keep as much of the crud from the kettle out of the cube as possible.

I also notice that while almost everyone uses Irish Moss here in the USA, virtually no one uses gelatin or filters their beer. Gelatin and flittering seem to be talked about quite a lot down there. Same with cold crashing, not much talk about it being needed. We have a brew club meeting tonight and I will try and remember to ask if anyone cold crashes.
 
I also notice that while almost everyone uses Irish Moss here in the USA, virtually no one uses gelatin or filters their beer. Gelatin and flittering seem to be talked about quite a lot down there. Same with cold crashing, not much talk about it being needed. We have a brew club meeting tonight and I will try and remember to ask if anyone cold crashes.
Gelatin, (Polyclar, Isinglass and other finings), cold crashing and filtering are generally related to the appearance of the beer.
While Palmer suggests it's a common practice in micro's if it's not common practice in US-HomeBrewing it may be that US-base-malt has less proteins and tannins than the majority of the base-malt we use here ... or that you're less fussy about how the beer looks when poured. ;)
 
Gelatin, (Polyclar, Isinglass and other finings), cold crashing and filtering are generally related to the appearance of the beer.
While Palmer suggests it's a common practice in micro's if it's not common practice in US-HomeBrewing it may be that US-base-malt has less proteins and tannins than the majority of the base-malt we use here ... or that you're less fussy about how the beer looks when poured. ;)

Never said the use of finings is not common practice. What I said was most of us use Irish Moss as a Kettle Fining.

I just thought Irish Moss was something you did not have access to and that is why you used other ways to clear your beer.

As big as competition is in the US home brew scene I am sure we are just as fussy about how our beer looks then you are.

Yes it could be a difference in malts.

Instant yeast removal is not as big of an issue with us. It could be that the better brewers that enter competitions have award winning clear beer because they let it set long enough to naturally clear. Our local craft brewer has a turn time of the mid 20 days for ale (sorry can not remember the exact number of days). They also spent a quarter mill on a centrifuge that can spin everything out of the beer almost back to water if they wanted to. I heard they did that to make a big customer happy and I no longer like their beer. I see some are trying to get you to let your beer set longer. Still a lot of you are proud of beer that goes from boil to bottle in a week or 2.

It is interesting to learn how people brew in different parts of the world. Ingredients are different as well as the basic brewing techniques that are passed from brewer to brewer.

Oh and my nice straw colored Wit is nice to look at. Would not be the same beer if it was filtered and fined to look like water. A Pilsner with the same look would be suspect of being a spoiled or off beer. In fact in my run of Wits last year I brewed an ale and forgot to use the Irish Moss. Had to resort to the use of gelatin to clear it out. Just something not right with mucking about with finished beer.
 
You may be missing something as I am sure it is recommended to keep as much of the crud from the kettle out of the cube as possible.
The issue was the convection in the near boiling wort meaning nothing settles on the bottom of the kettle. BribieG and 4* both indicated they leave the kettle (lid on) for 15 minutes or so and that convection settles, along with the break material.
 
Gelatin, (Polyclar, Isinglass and other finings), cold crashing and filtering are generally related to the appearance of the beer.
While Palmer suggests it's a common practice in micro's if it's not common practice in US-HomeBrewing it may be that US-base-malt has less proteins and tannins than the majority of the base-malt we use here ... or that you're less fussy about how the beer looks when poured. ;)

It's more than cosmetic. Yeast in solution has an impact on flavour.

@katzke - most grain brewers I know use whirlfloc which is a proprietrary name for an irish moss based tablet so it's common here too.
 
I asked a few of the better brewers at our brew club meeting if they do anything besides use Irish Moss as a fining.

The consensus was nothing but age. Those that have places that are cool enough let it age cool for a few weeks. More then not are racking their beer off the yeast after a week or so. All agreed that clarity is not an issue with the beers they see in the club. The exception may be a new brewer that has not gotten the process down yet. They have heard of a few brewers that filter. They all agreed it was not worth the potential problems and work.

The discussion turned to what makes good beer. Healthy yeast, proper fermentation temperature control, letting the yeast finish their work, proper racking techniques. Those that rack use CO2 to push finished beer around.

I also asked how long our big craft brewer takes to turn a beer. It is now down to 14 days as they are pushing production to the max for coast-to-coast distribution. I think someone said they are fermenting in the bright tanks. Now I really know why I do not like their beer anymore.
 
Back
Top