Iodophor Pitfalls

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PeterS

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Ray_Mills said:
Hi
1. Soak all your plastic equipment in bleach.
2. Use iodophor on brew day.

All you infection pproblems will go away. Its that simple. :)

Ray
[post="52671"][/post]​
Ray,

Thanks for your input. I was rather long winded as usual with my previous remarks. Although I did not mention it at the time, I have been using bleach on my Father In Laws recommendation. In addition to that I also used Morgans Sanitizer (Hydrogen Peroxide 2.95%, Silver Ions, stablizer and distilled water)in a spray bottle as needed rather frequently. It might have been my method or overconfidence on the day that led me to carelessness, hence an infection.

I have not seen Iodophor around my vicinity but would like to give it a try now that YOU are recommending it. Is Bentonite that is available from Chemist shops the same?. In other words, what is the active constituents % etc so that I might be able to source it locally (Brisbane).

Cheers,
Keep on Brewin' :beer:
 

Trough Lolly

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SJW,
I just read this thread now...Your HBS is full of $hit - Iodophor is excellent and I have no problems with it. Mind you, I've only been using it for a few years, but it has NEVER been a problem and touch wood, I've never had an infection in 10 years of brewing...
I make a spray bottle full of diluted Iodophor and spray anything that comes into contact with the brew - and I never rinse. I can see how it would turn a fermenter yellow, if you used it undeleted - it's like betadine but at 1000 to 1 dilution its pretty safe to splash on my plastic fermenters - the water in the spray bottle clears up with age so I just squirt another ml of it into the full spray bottle and away I go.

Corrode kegs and turn fermenters brittle - wank! He just wants you to buy something that will keep you coming back more often. Iodophor is your friend - and I never rinse.

Cheers,
TL
 

MCWB

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sosman said:
I have never used Iodophor but I have stacks of Betadine. I got the impression from somewhere that Iodophor was iodine and phosporic acid. Can anyone confirm what is actually in the stuff?
The iodophor ESB sells is 12 g/L effective iodine in 252 g/L phosphoric acid; it's made by DeLaval. I may have found an empty container of the stuff outside once. ;) :ph34r:
 

jimmysuperlative

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I've used it for about 2years ...never had "beer bug" trouble (touch wood). Mail order through ESB and it's still cheap as chips ;)
 

warrenlw63

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sosman said:
I got the impression from somewhere that Iodophor was iodine and phosporic acid. Can anyone confirm what is actually in the stuff?
[post="52655"][/post]​
Errrr, Iodine and Phosphoric Acid, or was that Phosphoric Acid and Iodine? :p

Warren -
 

PeterS

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Just to see the funny side of all this.

Thanks to 4077 M*A*S*H I read the PDF on the link provided. My question regarding the composition of Iodophore is answered in detail in that link..

Under Section 8 - Personal Protection it says: "Wear safety glasses or goggles and face shield. Also recommended that you wear impervious gloves, clothing and boots.

I knew I should have set up a laboratory.

That just proves that it has the ability to kill a lot of nasties, therefore I am going to give it a go....I wonder where could I buy a chep faceshield.

Cheers,
Keep on Brewin' :chug:
 

Kai

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MSDSs typically overstate safety requirement, doubtless they would say it for most sanitisers and cleaners brewers use. Try reading ones for ethanol one day :)
 

redbeard

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last time i cut my finger, i dabbed some Iodophor on. sure, it stung a bit but the stain disappeared after a few days & the cut healed up too ! :)
 

SJW

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Peter: I am in the same boat as u with the Morgans Sanatise (hydrogen peroxide) and the boys said to try the Iodophor. The Hydrogen Peroxide worked fine and i had no infections but it is just not cost effective. I was not sure of the diff. between Iodophor and Betadine so I just went the ESB mailorder option to be sure. And a 1 litre bottle should do me for years.

Through Lolly: My thoughts exactly. I cant wait for this stuff to turn up as i am doing a Porter on Friday.

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4000.00 gm Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9 EBC) Grain 63.0 %
1000.00 gm Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 15.7 %
750.00 gm Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (750.6 EBC) Grain 11.8 %
500.00 gm Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 7.9 %
100.00 gm Black (Patent) Malt (985.0 EBC) Grain 1.6 %
65.00 gm Williamette [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 35.8 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale



:beerbang:
 

warrenlw63

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SJW said:
I was not sure of the diff. between Iodophor and Betadine so I just went the ESB mailorder option to be sure. And a 1 litre bottle should do me for years.
[post="52745"][/post]​
Betadine is just straight iodine. Idophor is iodine and phosphoric acid.

Warren -
 

jjpalmer

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SJW said:
Thanks fellas for putting me onto the Iodophor. I ended up getting it mailorder from ESB. But when i informed my local HBS owner that i was now using Iodophor he started to tell me all the pitfalls of the stuff. And i should add that he does not carry it as a stock item. And why would he, at a mix rate of 1ml per letre Morgans Hydrogen Peroxide @ 30mls per letre is walking out the door.
Anyway he said that:

1- Do not put the stuff anywhere near stainless steel as it is fearsly corrosive. I am not sure why I would need to sanitise my boiler but is this true?

2- That it will over time turn the inside of your plastic fermenter chalky & brittle.

3- And with the over powering smell it would effect the taste of the beer.

Thoughts please.
[post="52585"][/post]​
No, it won't corrode Stainless steel.
No, it won't turn your plastic chalky and brittle. (it will turn it yellow)
No, you won't have any off-flavors if you mix it right. (but I am lazy and just pour some in until I have color, so I rinse anyway.)
John
(the metallurgist)
 

johnno

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warrenlw63 said:
Betadine is just straight iodine. Idophor is iodine and phosphoric acid.

Warren -
[post="52749"][/post]​
So if you get some phosphoric acid and Betadine you can make your own iodophor? Get a litre of both and it would last for ages.
I wonder what the breakdown would be to make your own?

cheers
johnno
 

warrenlw63

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johnno said:
So if you get some phosphoric acid and Betadine you can make your own iodophor? Get a litre of both and it would last for ages.
I wonder what the breakdown would be to make your own?

cheers
johnno
[post="52752"][/post]​
Quite cheap I'd say Johnno.

That said I pay $6.00 for 250ml from Grain and Grape. I only use 5ml per 5 litre of water per fermenter or keg and just shake it around.

That basically equates to 50 kegs or fermenters. Bear in mind also you can transfer the idophor from one keg to another if you're so inclined.

Good idea to buy in bulk Johnno. OTOH $6 for 250ml is pretty much money for old rope. B)

Warren -
 

SJW

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Well the Iodophor just turned up at my door. Not bad as i ordered it about 18 hours ago, anyway I don't know what those guys are using that said the stuff stinks. I made up 2 litres with 2mls and there was no smell at all.
And I thought that was the case with the Betadine ie, no phosphoric acid. Anyway this stuff should work a treat, once again thanks for the good advise boys.

STEPHEN
 

jimmysuperlative

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I read on some US brewers site that as long as the made up solution still retains it yellow/amber colour, then it is still active ...

I have found it can last up to a couple of months if its kept in an airtight container!!
 

Ross

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Well, just to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons...

Spent this morning with an industrial chemist who manufactures & distributes a product called Hy-San in Queensland. This product is the basis of Morgans "Sanitize" but since Hysan sells for $22 a litre or $85 for 5L & should be diluted for brewery use at 1ml per litre it's slightly more economic.
Analysis per litre:
Hysan H2O2 12%
Colloidal Silver <0.030 gms
Hydrous Oxide to 100%

This product is used exstensively by horticutural, farming, dairy, breweries, hospitals etc. Royal Brisbane uses it for sanitising & apparently it's the only effective treament for gangrene. I understand it's the preffered product to Iodine based sanitisers which I hear are the cause of cancer scares in the USA (then what isn't).
The product is totally taste free & totally clear. It does not need to be rinsed & is recommended that you don't - Infact it is used in your tap water as a sterilant at the rate of 0.1ml per litre.
The product can be used over & over & is easily tested to check it's viability.
What Morgans don't tell you on their much watered down/highly priced product, is that for maximum shelf life & efficiency, it should be used with ionised water - This is also sold at 40c a litre if required.
Hy-san can be just sprayed on, or the items rinsed in it, with full sterilisation reached in 7 minutes (something else Morgans ommited in their instructions)

Secondly, for cleaning/sterilisation/odour removal:

Sterri-kleen (Trisodium Orthophosphate). This product is a heavy duty, non sudsing cleanser with sterilising/anti fungal properties. Great for rinsing out your kegs, bottles, fermenters etc & removiing odours. 10 gms in 200ml is all thats required to clean all your used bottles - just a quick shake & poured into the next one. However, being a detergent it must be rinsed off before use.
price $10 per kilo.

Wolfgang is the gentlemans name & he has been brewing beer for over 30 years & has not purchased a commercial drop since he started.

If you are interested in the product, he can only sell it to you for horticultural purposes, as that is all his license permits

Horticultural Solutions - 86 Duncan Rd, Capalaba. Tel 07 3206 0037.

Needless to say I'm stocked up with both products - Hope this is of interest to a few...
 

pint of lager

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My thinking is that unless we can treat with heat or with mega loads of very toxic chemicals, we cannot kill everything and keeping weakend solutions of iodine lying around may end up breeding a "superbug."

I no longer have a copy of Fix's book, "An Analysis of Brewing Techniques" to quote from, but it went something like, "a concentration of 25ppm iodine in contact with a clean surface for 10 minutes will reduce the bacterial load to 0.01%." This is not word for word, but I am sure this was his correct rates.

So iodine is not 100% effective against 100% of everything, and as everyone has noted, iodine evaporates over time. The iodine is actually bound in a larger molecule, called povidone iodide, it is released from this molecule and does its sanitising, and the remaining molecule can be food for any bacteria that may get a foothold. There is a small chance that some bug will survive, and maybe thrive in a weakened solution. So rather than saving up your old iodine and using it over and over, think about using it for a day, or maybe a week, then ditching it. The stuff is cheap when bought in bulk.

The aim is to have an effective "no rinse" sanitiser.
 

Wortgames

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From Fix:

0.078% (12.5ppm free iodine): D value: 5 minutes
0.156% (25.0ppm free iodine): D value: 3 minutes

The D value is the time taken to reduce microbial level by a factor of ten (ie double the D value gives a reduction factor of 100 and so on).

I agree with POL, saving iodine solution is an act of extreme tightwaddedness.
 

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