Insane BIAB Efficiency after brewery revamp

[mtb]

There's got to be something I'm missing, so I'm reaching out to you good gentlemen, ladies and LadyBoy to help.
I've just finished mashing/sparging my Adequate Ale 11 recipe and the pre-boil gravity is reading 1.060 at 68L. Anticipating a 70% BH efficiency I was to expect 1.041 pre-boil gravity at ~64L. Dialling these readings into Beersmith tells me that my efficiency is over 100% which is what leads me to believe I've buggered something up, and given I'm full of tasty home brew, this is my first and only assumption.

Things I've done to cross-check my readings;
- tested the hydrometer with tap water; it reads 1.00
- adjusted for wort temperature; it actually read 1.048 at 58deg which works out to 1.061
- confirmed I only used the grains as per the recipe

By "brewery revamp", I mean that I recently got the shits with poor BH efficiency and bought store-cracked grain and built a sparging vessel. Tonight I used that cracked grain and sparging vessel; the sparging vessel is just a fermenter with the top cut off and a bunch of holes drilled in the bottom. After mashout I put the bag in the vessel and top up with sparge water. I sparged with 26L water at 76deg.

Thoughts? Is this just really good mash efficiency? I'd better adjust the hop schedule to suit an IPA instead of Pale Ale at this rate.

 

[Rocker1986]

Is the volume measurement correct? It seems rather impossible to be able to get over 100% extraction from the grains...

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

There's a mistake somewhere: 1060 is 156 g/l extract, multiply by 68 litres is 10.6 kg, not possible from 11 kg of grain.

 

[timmi9191]

I'll put my hand up and say that I was measured out grain twice. eg 5kg pale, 2 kg wheat, 150g crystal, 2 kg wheat. etc etc.. only realised when took the OG reading and back tracked what was left in my inventory.

Ended up with an 8% cerveza named it el loco.. wasnt too bad actually.

Maybe something similar happening mtb??

 

[mtb]

I thought I'd used more grain too, but because this was store-bought, it was in individual 1kg bags. I've just counted out the empty 1kg bags: nine Gladfield Pale Malt, one wheat malt, and I have two half-full Crystal and Munich on my counter. I know I didn't use more than this because I don't even own any other cracked grains, all other grain is whole (I usually crack my own).
Volume is an estimation as it's ~3cm from the lip of my 70L pot, after sparging finished. If it were 60L there'd still be an insane efficiency reading.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I can never get an accurate pre boil gravity. Said it many times before. If I do 5 tests I get 5 different readings at any time through to 30 minutes boiled. still cant get a consistent reading and mostly high suggesting over 100% mash efficiency. So I totally give up on pre boil gravity readings.
Then to the official OG reading. The ferment will have to be mixed really well for a few minutes and then take a reading for OG.
I have found wort to be extremely confusing to read. Its like it must have currents of sugars or something I don't understand.

 

[mtb]

I can never get an accurate pre boil gravity. Said it many times before. If I do 5 tests I get 5 different readings at any time through to 30 minutes boiled. still cant get a consistent reading and mostly high suggesting over 100% mash efficiency. So I totally give up on pre boil gravity readings.
Then to the official OG reading. The ferment will have to be mixed really well for a few minutes and then take a reading for OG.
I have found wort to be extremely confusing to read. Its like it must have currents of sugars or something I don't understand.

Yeah that's going to be the real indicator - the BH efficiency. I'm 45min into the boil now so I'll know soon enough. I will take the OG reading from the fermenter.

 

[bradsbrew]

How did you take the sample?

 

[Rocker1986]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly but if you are taking readings at various points all the way through to 30 minutes boiled then of course they will be different due to the water being boiled off. Pre boil SG means just that, pre boil.

Dissolved sugars shouldn't move around in the wort either, once they're dissolved and evenly mixed that's how they stay. They only start to come out of solution if you reach saturation point which requires a hell of a lot more sugar than you'd extract in a grain mash.

 

[mtb]

How did you take the sample?

Poured from the outlet valve into a glass, cooled a little, added to hydrometer tube.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly but if you are taking readings at various points all the way through to 30 minutes boiled then of course they will be different due to the water being boiled off. Pre boil SG means just that, pre boil.

Dissolved sugars shouldn't move around in the wort either, once they're dissolved and evenly mixed that's how they stay. They only start to come out of solution if you reach saturation point which requires a hell of a lot more sugar than you'd extract in a grain mash.

Haven't taken readings during the boil, just before the boil. I am now waiting for the boil to complete so I can chill and take another reading which would be my OG, and then I can calculate my BH efficiency.
Speaking of which, BeerSmith tells me it's flameout..

 

[Danscraftbeer]

To add something geeky freeky. I take a sample from my kegmenter after its charged to 5psi with o2 and roll shaken.

Just by 6mm hose on a beer disconnect into test tube.

This done immediately after I roll shake it gets me the true reading. All by estimated design.
I have forgotten to take that reading sometimes and then took one the next morning and freeked out because it was much lower than expected so I thought I'd bombed out on efficiency big time. But I knew I did it all right! -_-

I then re mixed the kegmenter again for one minute and took a reading and it was up there were it was supposed to be by design. All good.

Its like the sugars rise in the first 12 hours or something? :unsure: I really don't know but its not really a problem as far as I hit my expected total efficiency. :chug:

 

[bradsbrew]

Could be that you have taken a more concentrated sample from first runnings in outlet?

 

[mtb]

Nah, I recirculate via that outlet. Also I stirred beforehand

 

[mtb]

Well, the OG is 1.049. No clue what prompted the hydrometer to read so high pre-boil... I shit you all not, it read 1.048 pre-boil, with adjustment for temperature, that was 1.061.

Anyway - this is not the story of a magic super-efficient BIAB that I hoped it would be. I adjusted the recipe pre-boil on the assumption that the OG would be far higher so I now have a very bitter (60 IBU) Pale Ale.. hope it doesn't taste too bad, I dumped 250g hops into it :unsure:

 

[Rocker1986]

Haven't taken readings during the boil, just before the boil.

Sorry mate, was referring to this here quote:

I can never get an accurate pre boil gravity. Said it many times before. If I do 5 tests I get 5 different readings at any time through to 30 minutes boiled. still cant get a consistent reading

Do you mean that you leave the hydrometer in the same sample, or repeatedly test the same sample, and the reading keeps changing? If so, that's very odd.

 

[Rocker1986]

Sugars don't move around in solution like that under normal conditions. If they did then bottles of cordial wouldn't stay at the same even concentration for their lifetimes. Beers would exhibit varying levels of residual sweetness and body and colour depending on what part of the batch you are drinking, or all the residual sugar would settle in the bottom after a while, which doesn't happen. Once they are dissolved and in suspension they stay there unless you reach saturation point.

Something is ******* up your readings, but it isn't that.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Do you mean that you leave the hydrometer in the same sample, or repeatedly test the same sample, and the reading keeps changing? If so, that's very odd.

No

I batch sparge and pre boil each batch. Then when my keggle is full I try to take a pre boil reading. I take more than just one reading. Maybe that is something in itself. I geek out on brewing. I have to confirm it. So when my pre boil reading suggests I've got 110% efficiency then that cant be right. So mix well while boiling and re test, and re , and re, and re test!!!!
Sorry but I fail at getting a consistent pre boil gravity reading via Refractometer and Hydrometer readings on a pre boil. Cooling the sample and all etc's.
I advocate all that labour as a waist of time considering the total efficiency is the all important thing and that is confirmed.
Darks ~ 73%
Mids, IPA's ~ 76%
5%ABV Pales get 76% up to 82% for a low carb all grain. :beerbang:

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Well, the OG is 1.049.

At what volume?

 

[mtb]

At what volume?

60L.. so BH efficiency ended up being ~82%. Not bad at all but I had planned for 46L. The boil was fairly vigorous.

 

[mtb]

I filled two 25L fermenters and took the remaining 10L to boil down and add back into the fermenters. That oughta balance the IBU:OG