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India Red Ale

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bradmccoy

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Thinking of doing an American IPA style beer but with a little Special B and Carared. Anyone got any advice on this? I've put together a rough grain bill. Still not sure about the Carared - maybe I'd be better off with something else?

For 30 litres:
Light malt 5kg 71.4%
Carared 1kg 14.3%
Carapils 400g 5.7%
Crystal (40L) 400g 5.7%
Special B 200g 2.9%
Total 7kg

Plus a kg of dextrose. Hopville tells me I should get an OG of around 1064.

Going to use 60g of Simcoe and 60g of Cascade, a third boiled for 60min, a third for 30min, and a third added post-boil.

I'm still building my AG setup, so I'll be mashing everything but the light malt (will substitute for 3kg DME).
 

Nick JD

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The best way to make a beer red is by adding caraaroma to about 10% followed by about 1-2% of roast barley.

This is my Leffe Radieuse clone (also has a bit of dark candy syrup that also adds to the redness, but only a little bit).

IMG_3303.JPG
 

doon

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I'd agree with nick with the roast have been adding 30g to 20 odd litres brews if I want some redness and comes out great
 

awall

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I tried to make a india red ale and found that adding a very small amount of roasted barley gives it a red colour without impacting on flavour. I did a PM and put in 50g in for the last 10 mins. It wasn't super red but a nice amber colour. http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/19438-whats-in-the-glass/?p=1013081 I should've left it for longer to get a deeper red. From what I've read online, the carared doesn't do much toward actually making the beer red.

Edit... what these two said ^
 

bradmccoy

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Thanks guys.

Is 15%ish too much for a cara (either red or aroma)? Maybe I should pull it back to 10%...

Anyone got any advice on difference in flavour between red and aroma? I'm not terribly bothered about the colour it comes out as.
 

Nick JD

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bradmccoy said:
Thanks guys.

Is 15%ish too much for a cara (either red or aroma)? Maybe I should pull it back to 10%...

Anyone got any advice on difference in flavour between red and aroma? I'm not terribly bothered about the colour it comes out as.
Carared is pretty mild. Caraaroma is BIG - very dark, very red and very dried fruit tasting. Delicious stuff.

You can use a lot more carared than caraaroma. Check out the EBCs of the two. IMO carared is a bit meh. Special B is essentially a Belgian caraaroma.

IPAs are pretty dark anyway - so really, if you want to make a red one, you really need to make it red ... otherwise it's just an IPA.
 

manticle

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Shitload of crystal in there. DME will only make it thicker and sweeter.

You don't mash crystal by the way - conversion has already occurred during the malting process.
 

warra48

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bradmccoy said:
Thanks guys.

Is 15%ish too much for a cara (either red or aroma)? Maybe I should pull it back to 10%...

Anyone got any advice on difference in flavour between red and aroma? I'm not terribly bothered about the colour it comes out as.
That's 1.8 kg of Cara and Crystal malts, in a 30 litre brew.

Personally, I think that's way too much.

I'd cut all of them down by half, at least. If you want some body and maltiness, look at using some Munich malt instead ( I know you aren't yet doing full AG).
 

bradmccoy

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Yeah I usually just steep crystal, but figured since I'm mashing other grains, I should just throw it all in the tun. Is that a bad idea? I've never actually mashed anything before.

Sounds like Caraaroma would go well with the Special B. But just heaps less of it.

How much Munich would you throw in?
 

bradmccoy

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You have to mash Carared and Caraaroma, right?
 

manticle

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Not as far as I'm aware no. German crystal malts need only be steeped. If you steep at 60-70 degrees you are following the mashing process but what occurs inside the grain is different. You don't need to convert starch to sugar (mash) - that has already been done.

If you end up using munich, you will need to mash it.

If you can steep that amount of crystal then you have the equipment to mash base malt so you could cut the crystal back by at least half and do a partial with some munich.

you can steep in the same vessel - the point of difference is the conversion. Base malt has starch and enzymes which are capable of converting that starch into sugar, given the right conditions. When you mash, you give them the right conditions.

When you steep, you are simply extracting colour and flavour, even if you use the same vessel and treat the grains the same as you would when mashing base malt.
 

slash22000

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I've read before that steeping specialty malt after the mash, before the boil, produces a more complex beer than mashing them all together. Never tried it myself, but hey.
 

black_labb

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American ales tend to use a fair bit of light crystals. The Carared and the crystal 40 are both good choices. CaraAroma and spec B can be used well in a beer like this, but don't just chuck them in because of the colour. I wouldn't personally put roast barley in something like this but I always feel that pushing the right flavour is the most important thing. Colour comes second.

One thought and something I've used to great effect in darker american IPA's is belgian candy sugar. It gives a beautiful saturated red colour and the flavour works perfectly with the american hops. It also keeps the beer from being too chewy.

Choc Rye is another good source of a nice red colour while working well flavour wise.
 

Nick JD

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black_labb said:
One thought and something I've used to great effect in darker american IPA's is belgian candy sugar. It gives a beautiful saturated red colour and the flavour works perfectly with the american hops. It also keeps the beer from being too chewy.
+1

I just put 150g of it in a 12L batch of Simcoe Imperial IPA. Mmmmmmm.
 

mje1980

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I used 15% carared in a red ale. Flavour was not over the top at all. Colour wasn't super red either. 30-50g or rb late in the mash would've made it more red I believe.
 

Nick JD

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Getting red into beer is all about the charcoally products of cooking sugaz up.

Like when you ask a car painter to paint your car black, the first thing the painter will ask is, "What colour black?"

To make a beer red when held up to the light requires getting products of burning into suspension in the beer. When light shines through the superfine charred bits of barley or sugar in your beer all the wavelengths of the visible spectrum are caught by it ... except the red end. Same principle as a red sunset in a bushfire.

Red beer is all about charcoal being a red-black. Hence the efficacy of roast barley and superdark candy sugaz.
 

bradmccoy

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This beer ended up with a nice copper colour (not at all red). The caraaroma isn't over the top. Would probably mash at a higher temp next time for a sweeter beer. Ended up using chinook and centennial, which worked well.
 

Midnight Brew

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Post a pic it sounds interesting. What grain bill did you end up going with?
 

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