Im Curious about Barley Wine

[Danscraftbeer]

I'm thinking of trying more literally of a wine yeast like EC-1118. Or maybe a Saison yeast? Maybe a clash of flavours with a high IBU but how would I know!? To play it safe I may just use US-05. Make one around the end of this year to drink the end of next year, the year after that etc. B)

 

[Reman]

Did the re-iterated mash over the weekend and it worked like a champ and was pretty much spot on to 1.100.

Both mashes were BIAB in the 19L Big W pot, both were 3.5kg of BB Ale malt only, and 90 mins. Target mash temp was 94c.

First mash was 94c down to 91c and I ended up with 1.063 after dunk sparging with 3L. This was a little higher than I expected but it was probably a good thing.

Second mash the temp was not quite what I was aiming for and ended at 65.5c, so I'm guessing it started around 68c. After 90 mins and sparging with 4.5L I ended up with 19L of 1.084 for the boil.

Boil was 2 hours with 50ibu at 60min, 30ibu at 30min, 20ibu at 10min. Ended with about 14L of 1.103. This had a huge amount of trub, most of which went in the FV.

So all up it was a pretty straight forward process, I hit my targets and my first Barleywine is fermenting away on a WLP009 cake used for an APA.

Had a taste of the OG and the taste is amazing, very complex and sweetish. I might have to try 2 hour boils on more of my beers!

Recipe here http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/979856/crispy-all-australian-barleywine

 

[Chookers]

Reman do you mean 64 and 61, 94 and 91 seem very high for mashing.. assuming its a typo

Both mashes were BIAB in the 19L Big W pot, both were 3.5kg of BB Ale malt only, and 90 mins. Target mash temp was 94c.

First mash was 94c down to 91c and I ended up with 1.063 after dunk sparging with 3L. This was a little higher than I expected but it was probably a good thing.

 

[Reman]

Reman do you mean 64 and 61, 94 and 91 seem very high for mashing.. assuming its a typo

Whoops! You are indeed correct.

 

[Chookers]

I have questions regarding the Flaked Maize addition in the Barclay Perkins recipe.. I have heard of people using all sorts in place.. like popped corn, polenta and some use flaked rice.. I am just curious as to the amounts you would add.. would it be the same as 7.9% ?

I am not ready to make this yet, still gotta build my experience

I am also looking at alternative hops.. what I am trying to get is something as close as possible to this recipe using only Aussie products with exception to the yeast.

 

[Mardoo]

I'm thinking of trying more literally of a wine yeast like EC-1118. Or maybe a Saison yeast? Maybe a clash of flavours with a high IBU but how would I know!? To play it safe I may just use US-05. Make one around the end of this year to drink the end of next year, the year after that etc. B)

Go the WLP099 Super High Gravity. All accounts I've found are that it's originally a barley wine yeast.

 

[Chookers]

I just read the White Labs Brewers notes on the WLP009, it says that it will produce winey flavour when it gets to 16% ABV pitch 3-4 more yeast as normal and aerate very heavily 4 times as much as normal gravity beers.

Can I aerate without an air stone? would just shaking the vessel put oxygen into the solution? would I have to shake the vessel every couple of days? and if I did have to do it a few time would I have to open the vessel to let the oxygen in and the CO2 out? That may introduce bacteria, No?

 

[Chookers]

sorry so many silly questions.. but I am new to doing AG, so I would only attempt this after I am more experienced. I am trying to knock out a plan for hopefully April. does this sound like a good idea to you guys? am I being too cautious or not cautious enough?

 

[Chookers]

are flaked maize and flaked rice comparable flavour wise?.. see my previous post 21/12/15

I'm looking for film of people doing the reiterated mash..

 

[danestead]

are flaked maize and flaked rice comparable flavour wise?.. see my previous post 21/12/15

I'm looking for film of people doing the reiterated mash..

I'm not sure about maize but I thought rice was used primarily as a cheap way to up the sugar/alcohol content in a beer without adding much flavour. If I were wanting to thin out a beer's flavour I'd just add table sugar, but thats just me. There may be other reasons you want to possibly use rice but that is my opinion.

 

[Chookers]

thanks danestead for answering my curiosity.. I wonder if I could do one of these strong beers on a very small scale like a nano batch 4L when I do my next ale.. just to try them out, I do want to see the way it will change with age.

 

[manticle]

I just read the White Labs Brewers notes on the WLP009, it says that it will produce winey flavour when it gets to 16% ABV pitch 3-4 more yeast as normal and aerate very heavily 4 times as much as normal gravity beers.

Can I aerate without an air stone? would just shaking the vessel put oxygen into the solution? would I have to shake the vessel every couple of days? and if I did have to do it a few time would I have to open the vessel to let the oxygen in and the CO2 out? That may introduce bacteria, No?

Shaking will introduce some oxygen but never what is considered adequate.
The bigger the beer, the more the small things often matter (similarly/conversely the more delicate the beer, the more the small things matter).

You can shake a few times but once the anaerobic aspect of fermentation is close to complete, additional shaking will accelerate unwelcome aging/oxidation reactions so it is best avoided once you notice any visible signs of fermentation.

A big yeast pitch of fresh healthy yeast will definitely help.

 

[Reman]

Mines down to 1.020 from 1.100, been that way for a few days so I'm guessing she might be done. Taste is quite weird like it still hasn't integrated yet. Definitely strong on the alcohol, but quite clean. I'm going to leave it on the trub for about 6 more weeks, then I'm going to rack and probably split in two to Brett and oak one and just oak the other.

 

[Chookers]

Thanks Manticle, and Reman.. I would like to hear how yours goes Reman.

 

[Chookers]

I just bought this thermometer, has anyone used this sort before? have I just thrown away $30?.. I hear CDN is a good brand. I did need a reliable thermometer my other one was way out and I had no way to recalibrate it, and it was slow.

http://www.petersofkensington.com.au/Public/CDN-Programmable-Probe-Thermometer-Timer.aspx

 

[Grainer]

looks nice

 

[Markbeer]

Rice is different to using simple sugars.

Rice doesnt thin a beer out. It is low in flavour and will lighten the taste but not lower the body.

When you mash it it takes on the fermentability same as the other grains. The enzymes dont distinguish between rice starch or barley.

So if you wanted a thicker beer with less flavour rice mashed at a high temp could be an option.

I cant see why you would want it in a barley wine.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Mardoo. I'll try that WLP099 next attempt.

Just for notes on subject.
My Barleywine attempt hasn't worked, darn. Its just a 6lt batch thankfully.
6lt batch, OG = 1.095. 1pk EC-1118 yeast rehydrated as instructions and pitched. (yeast count checks ok by MrMalty and Beersmith)
Fermented at varying room temp, ~23 to 28c. After 2 weeks its stuck at 1.060. I made a stir plated starter with another packet of EC-1118. Stir plated for 14 hours to see just a little krausen activity but it was active. Added that to a secondary and carefully racked the brew off the old lees into the new activated yeast.
Its only managed to drop to 1.050. Darn! I mashed for full body but I thought EC-1118 has the reputation to eat it all. :huh:

 

[Mardoo]

It may be - and I'm going by what I've heard, not experience- the 1118 is too oriented towards wine-type sugars and can't do anything with the maltose and maltotriose you find in wort, but not so much in must (juice for wine making). Anyone with more experience with that yeast have anything to say?

 

[Chookers]

Markbeer, thanks for answering my rice question.. If I were to do this recipe I would probably use polenta in place of the flaked maize. I was just curious to see what other ingredients could be used in place, and what they would add, you have answered my question..

I was having mixed grain porridge for a long time, but now don't eat it any more, I am now left with a few packets of rolled Rice, rolled Rye, and rolled barley from the health food store.. could any of these be useful in a beer or barley wine. These are not malted.

on the yeast...

I am not experienced but I have read that the T58 yeast is supposed to be pretty good at eating up sugars.. or what about the one they call pacman, is that anygood.

They guy in the Barclay Perkins recipe uses the Whitebread yeast, but that didn't seem to have an unusually high alc tolerance.

1388 Belgian Strong Ale sounds like it may be applicable (I have only read the description)

I am only throwing these out there, but have no actual experience with any of them..