How to use Brewing Salts

[slcmorro]

Hi all,

I've been brewing for some time now and the next of my brewducation I've decided needs to be water profiles and salts. Does anyone have any recommendations on where to start? I see all sorts of different salts/additives on offer through sellers, and recommendations for a specific profile for certain beers but outside of that, I wouldn't know what is used for what or how much to use and how to calculate etc.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[GalBrew]

There is an old thread about water chemistry where I think Manticle posted quite a good introductory guide on the topic. You also need to get your water report from your supplier and you will need to use a water calculator like the one at Brewers Friend or the EZ water calc. The main salts you will probably use are calcium sulphate (gypsum), calcium chloride and calcium carbonate (chalk).

Have a read of that guide though and it is quite straightforward.

Edit: Here is a link to the guide I was talking about http://www.melbournebrewers.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=114:key-concepts-in-water-treatment&catid=48:ingredients&Itemid=103 written by Tony Wheeler and hosted by the Melbourne Brewers.

 

[Midnight Brew]

There's an awesome article called "key concepts of water treatment" by graham wheeler. Gives a really good breakdown of all the salts involved and to what colour of beer you're brewing. Based on Melbourne water but once you know your own water supply profile you can adapt it to that.

Also if you can filter debris out of rainwater it's a good base canvas to build off. Calcium chloride and calcium suphate would be a good starting point.

Ez water calculator as mentioned is a good way of working out what you need. These days I just use the beersmith water tool.

 

[troopa]

Funny I was just playing around with this tonight.
Someone posted a link awhile ago to brewersfriend that I lost then again tonight I found it
the Ez water spread sheet is good to play with as well

links
http://www.brewersfriend.com/stats/ a hole heap of info on other stuff
http://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/ a basic table to play with but has some other bits missing
http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/ more full on

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/water-profiles/ and I believe Ballarat is on there

 

[Camo6]

Bru'n Water is another good site for info. And don't forget the good ole' How to Brew section on mash Ph.

If you're in need of a PH tester, while you can spend big bucks on a good unit, I've found $25 ebay jobbies to be adequate enough on a HB level.

 

[Cervantes]

I also use the EZ Water spreadsheet for my calculations and find it pretty accurate.

Edit:

Note to self: Should read full thread before posting.

Removed repeated advice.

 

[dicko]

Or use rainwater as a base the same as you may use RO water and just use EZ water or Bruin Water and add from there.

If you are prepared to steep darker grains and darker crystals then the salt additions to mash water becomes very easy and also very predictable.
Steeping these darker grains reduce the need for chalk and other PH increasing salt additions which make the whole procedure really easy.
My opinion only

Water additions may cause stress and confusion.....

 

[ebyelyakov]

Bru'n website is a decent resource.. The guide there is long and tedious but after a few reads things got clear for me... Then his calculator and playing with your water (you will need to obtain a water report for your area)....

Essentially I care that I have enough calcium in my mash (important for mashing, formation of break and yeast health/flocc)... Depending on whether I want to accentuate bitterness vs malt (any side or just at the middle - balanced) I'd combine Gypsum and CaCl for that... Each time I create a new recipe I'd use mash acidity calculation (I like to mash all in -- including roasted grains when used) to ensure my mash PH is within the target...

Once you've done it 10 times you'll get a good grip of it....

Using RO water is OK however, will require adding salts each time to constrict whatever profile you need.

 

[dicko]

Most people are entirely confused with brewing water and mash PH and a whole lot of other information that may or may not be relevant.

This is only my observations , so take it as you will................

With a grist that doesn't have anything darker than Munich 2 and it is only around 5 to 10 percent then if you are using RO water and addition of 8 gramms of Calcium Chloride and 4 gramms of Calcium Sulphate in around 32 litres of total water will get you into the ball park as far as mash ph is concerned.
Just take your mash volume from the total a mash with it. Sparge with the rest.
Have an accurate and quality PH meter to check but it is relatively easy to fall into the target between 5.2 and 5:6 temperature adjusted.

Steep all dark crystals and add at the end of the mash which wont affect the mash PH.
It is a well known fact that higher sulphate will accentuate hops and that is true however when most brewers add that extra Calcium Sulphate then it will affect the mash PH.
If you feel because your neighbor said to add it then add it, however you need to watch closely the mash PH. Why not add it to the boil if that is what you want to achieve......or just mash to an equal chloride/ sulphate ratio and just add hops to taste.
After measuring mash PH it can easily be adjusted if high, with a bit of food grade acid or even acidulated malt.

Another consideration is the theory from A J DeLange re the actual need for an amount of Calcium in the mash.
I have experimented with only adding 4 gramms of Calcium Chloride into the total water volume with no other additions and have brewed some great pilseners with extremely soft water.
Yeast neutrients will help but be wary of what you are adding......zinc is good.

If you are using rain water as opposed to RO water and after checking mash PH your readings are more acidic or more alkaline then check why this is happening.....leaves in your gutter or tank.......water from cement tiles or into a cement tank etc etc etc....

I have not had to put the flame suit on for many years on here but I have dragged it out from the wardrobe......lI will think I will need it.

 

[motman]

I broke my brain on all this for a while, read everything out there, even remembered a bit of chemistry and after a while decided it is not too tricky.

My take:

1: get a water profile and plug it into you calculator..

2: find a target profile based on beer, not a historical location

3: adjust as per calculator recommendations within reason

4: measure ph. Post 15 mins or so of mashing

5: tweak to your liking the next time

Mash ph seems pretty robust most of the time to me.


A simplified version that would apply to most pale ales and water types could also go along the lines of add calcium sulphate or chloride to a minimum of 100ppm ca, hope and measure and you will probably be ok.

My impression is that there is lots to learn about mash chemistry but you don't need to know it all to make a good beer. Good luck and enjoy.

 

[anthonyUK]

Mash ph seems pretty robust most of the time to me.

You must be lucky and have decent water to start with

Generally for me the most important thing to measure would be alkalinity to ensure mash pH is in the right region but then I have almost 400ppm Bicarbonate which i don't know if you have anywhere is AUS where this would would be the case.

A Salifert test kit costs about £8 and should be good for 100+ tests.

 

[manticle]

1. Check water quality. Is it chlorinated, chloraminated, permanently hard, temporarily hard, carbonate/bicarbonate heavy, etc? In all likelihood it's fine but you need a water report. If not fine, consider charcoal filtering, ro unit or similar.
2. Work out/measure mash pH before salt additions. Be aware of temperature effects, remember grain type affects pH (dark = lower pH).
3. Add calcium salts to boost calcium levels as necessary. Calcium generally drops pH (unless adding chalk) so check pH level.
4. If pH is still too high, consider acid or acid malt addition. If too much acid or acid malt needs to be added, you need to treat the water first - see 1.
5. Once calcium and pH is sorted, consider the affect of the other part of the calcium salt on flavour. Sulphate to accentuate hops and hop bitterness, chloride to push malt and roundness. Other salts like sodium chloride, magnesium sulphate or zinc chloride can boost these without adding extra calcium but caution should be exercised (as with all salt and acid additions) as too much will screw the beer. Magnesium is sufficient in all malt beers, sodium is toxic to yeast in high levels and sufficient zinc can be added with a good nutrient. If you need to push sulphate and or chloride after hitting appropriate mash pH, you can add more calcium salts to the kettle.

Keep in mind too that recent research seems to suggest calcium is a good addition to most ales but soft pale lagers may get all they need from malt. Something I need to read more about as the info came about after I did most of my reading to produce my water chem doc.

As mentioned a water calc will help. Ez is easy, brun is a bit more in depth but I think the results are more accurate.

Don't stress too much. If your water is not too bad to begin with, it's just tweaking. Think of it as seasoning for the beer. Can have a noticeable effect, won't make a shit beer good but too much can make an otherwise good beer bad.

I wrote a doc with more detail I can hunt up and link but don't want to overwhelm you with info. Brun water knowledge page is comprehensive - any of these docs need to be read a few times unless you are a chem major.

 

[manticle]

You must be lucky and have decent water to start with

Depends a bit on state/region but many areas in AU have very good, clean, potable water - our main problem is not having enough of it.

 

[manticle]

There's an awesome article called "key concepts of water treatment" by graham wheeler.

Tony wheeler = melbourne based brewer
Graham wheeler = british based real ale proponent.

Both hb brewing guys but key concepts is by Tony.

 

[Cervantes]

My impression is that there is lots to learn about mash chemistry but you don't need to know it all to make a good beer. Good luck and enjoy.

I'll second this.

I gave up trying to understand the chemistry, but with a good calculator, you don't need to understand it. As long as you know the water profile that you are starting with and what you want to achieve, the calculator will do the rest for you.

Edit: Spelling

 

[Bribie G]

We have excellent water in the Manning Valley, filtered and RO'd at the plant and chlorinated with gas so it's easy to remove.

So I go on style. Aussie styles: sulphates. UK malt driven styles: Calcium Chloride. Southern UK Styles: Burtonise with sulphates.

MHB was experimenting with Calcium Lactate that gives heaps of Calcium without necessarily altering flavour outcomes. (Calcium Lactate is what they put in Calcium enriched shyte like those fruit juices).

 

[drsmurto]

I've said it before in other threads and I'll keep repeating it.

Measure mash pH. If it is out of whack then start adjusting your water chemistry/grist etc.

Making wholesale changes to your brewing based on what a spreadsheet tells you with no experimental data of your own is ridiculous. It's blind faith. How would you even know if what you have done actually changes the mash pH?

One other point, it's CaCl2, not CaCl.

 

[ebyelyakov]

Since there was mentioning of Zinc and nutrients... I like DAP. 2.6 gms for a 20lt batch made yeasts much happier (since I reuse yeasties, its health is very important for me).

 

[Bribie G]

Probably a bit off topic as this is a mashing topic but DAP is really just superphosphate for yeasts. I use the brown coloured nutrient (as sold by CraftBrewer and others) that has more elements.

On topic, how accurate are all purpose testing strips for mash pH testing?

 

[TheWiggman]

I use the Bru'n Water spreadsheet for most of my water info because it contains a lot of detail in the spreadsheet itself. When in the Water Profile Adjustments worksheet, hold your mouse over the various chemicals and a pop-up will list the effects of each and recommend a range depending on what you're brewing.

This page has stacks of detail about all the different minerals and for me it's pretty much the only reference I need (especially at my level). Plus, Martin Brungard is a poster on this forum and his posts are ones that you can genuinely trust.

I think if you buy some calcium sulphate (gypson), calcium chloride and magnesium sulphate (Epsom salt), you'll have most bases covered for all beer styles with the majority of Aussie water. And as above, know your pH.