How To Improve Vic Case Swaps

[haysie]

Good Idea Manticle,

Lotsa talk around re, the 28 bottle issue. Some people on the fence, some ok with it, some including myself find it a bit of a drag I dont have a few testers etc.

Lets rant n rave all we want and keep the XMAS SWAP 2010 on topic.

Quality or Quantity?

Me, would prefer consistent quality rather than quantity, too many times people myself included are making up the numbers with this or that. Also todays brewing a lot of people no chill in cubes, ferment in better bottles 20-22 ltrs before you take the shite out.
I say limit the swap to 24, but I dont have an immediate answer to a second swap, hosting etc. Something has to give though, check out the Vic grain bulk buy, more and more punters are brewing, which is great.

 

[manticle]

I think people should be encouraged to know what their beer tastes like before they give it to numerous others. If reducing the number of swappers helps this happen then I'm for it. 28 bottles leaves very little for the swapper to test. Alternatively warmbeer's suggestion of slightly smaller bottles (say 640 mL) might work out too.

I'm just going to copy and paste some of my other thoughts from the thread:

What they do need [the swaps] is for any participants to recognise that by joining they are making a commitment to make their effort the best they can and KNOW what they are giving others before they give it (even if it's not perfect or to everyone's taste).

People who do take part should just make sure they're a bit organised and make a good effort.

However they shouldn't become over complicated - the swap is as much about the day, the meeting other brewers, the talking shit about beer with no chance of anyone else wanting to change the subject, the pig, the goat and the drawing of puerile toilet imagery with texta on the head of anyone unfortunate enough to fall asleep thinking they are among friends.

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

However they shouldn't become over complicated - the swap is as much about the day, the meeting other brewers, the talking shit about beer with no chance of anyone else wanting to change the subject, the pig, the goat and the drawing of puerile toilet imagery with texta on the head of anyone unfortunate enough to fall asleep thinking they are among friends.

I am not a prictorian Victorian but I do agree whole heartily with the comments. I enjoy talking brew things amongst other like minded brewers.

Now, as you were...

BYB

 

[Wolfy]

However they shouldn't become over complicated - the swap is as much about the day, the meeting other brewers, the talking shit about beer with no chance of anyone else wanting to change the subject, the pig, the goat and the drawing of puerile toilet imagery with texta on the head of anyone unfortunate enough to fall asleep thinking they are among friends.

I'm not so sure about that.
While I agree with what you are suggesting, I see the "case swap" and the "case swap meet" as two different and separate things.

But back on topic, I believe that 28 was the 'magic number' for swappers because it equates to 2x14 which is the number of longnecks that fit in milk-crates.
However, given that the majority of swappers use now PET bottles, that reason is a little irrelevant (but I'm not going to suggest 2x16).

 

[white.grant]

Back in easter the Sydney brewers orgnaised a special case swap - in this swap we focussed on providing one beer from 3 separate categories with 6 ish options - the targets were bigger beers including IPAs, double IPAs and Stouts and RISs, Belgians and barley wines.

Participants had to stump up 14 bottles per category so different brewers participated where they liked. The swap wasn't fully subscribed but I recall there were about 30 bottles across the range.

It was an awesome if physically debilitating swap once the tasting started :icon_drunk: but there were some really great beers and the plus side was that with only providing 14 bottles there was heaps left for the individual brewer to enjoy, so the price of entry was lower.

It will be on again next year.

cheers

grant

 

[haysie]

Had to :lol: reading that Wolfy. So bloody right, time and time again that #28 is thrown around because of milk crates. Nothing to do with fermenters etc, no MILK CRATES!
PET`s are boxes of 15 I think, and no suggestion here of a #30 swap.
Leigh mentioned in the original thread of QLD`S running 2/concurrent swaps? how do they do that?

edit, reading Grant`s post, Earlier I was thinking something similar maybe along the lines CAT1 Funky Beers , lambics, fruits CAT2 Dark Beers, Porters Stouts
CAT3 Lager Beer, anything brewed with a lager yeast CAT4 Pale Ale <6% any nationality
already i would see an issue with CAT1,i.e not enough time to condition.

Thx for the post Grant, these are ideas to throw around.

 

[Leigh]

Two swap lists mate, say 1-20 on the first one, and A-T on the second (to avoid too much confusion)...keen punters could go in both...

Or you could take up something similar to what Grant has said above, have 24 regular punters and say 14 in a special swap...

Either way, you can get more participants. I guess it will be up to the more experienced brewers to make sure they don't stack one of the swaps...

 

[manticle]

I'm not so sure about that.
While I agree with what you are suggesting, I see the "case swap" and the "case swap meet" as two different and separate things.

Both different, both as important to the overall experience. Add to that the hopefully objective feedback, whether being given by voices of experience or heard by the less so.

 

[mxd]

as someone who has put at least 2 bad bottles out in the last swap (me and supra-jim) I will do "more" to ensure my confidence level is up.

I can now do double batches, so that certainly helps.

This could be
1) bottle from keg(s).
2) brew, ferment and bottle 40 ltrs from the one brew, then randomly select 5 or 6 as tasters, to get my confidence, then pick 28 for the swap
3) buy 28 coopers stouts long necks and call it mine

 

[Wolfy]

Two swap lists mate, say 1-20 on the first one, and A-T on the second (to avoid too much confusion)...keen punters could go in both...

Either way, you can get more participants. I guess it will be up to the more experienced brewers to make sure they don't stack one of the swaps...

If things were to change, for my money this is the best idea.
One of the things that I've found enjoyable about the case swap is the range of different beer, I think I'd be less interested if they were all restricted to a specific set of styles/guidelines/etc. Would work for a special swap, but not IMHO for a general one.

However, the really big question are there 35-48 people interested in swapping beer in Melb this Christmas (we didn't even get 28 at the recent swap)?
Without more than 24 people registered, all this discussion really becomes academic.

 

[haysie]

However, the really big question are there 35-48 people interested in swapping beer in Melb this Christmas (we didn't even get 28 at the recent swap)?

I reckon there is mate. Their are existing brewers that wont come on board anymore because of the very reasons we are discussing, then add the new brewers.
We did get 28 (listed) at the last swap quite easily, only 1 pric pulled out with no word.

edit, I like that Leigh 1-20 and A-T with no boundaries, if 1-20 is full and a-t have 6 spaces, things become a 17 bottle affair, yet 20-34 punters on hand. EXCELLENT!

 

[mxd]

another option, stubbies, each swapper does 2 stubbies of different brews. The way a 20 ltr batch will give you the swap and enough to test ?

 

[manticle]

Have you heard the regular kegging swappers whinge about how hard bottling is?

You want to double their work now?

You will bring new meaning to the word 'sook'.

 

[Wolfy]

another option, stubbies, each swapper does 2 stubbies of different brews. The way a 20 ltr batch will give you the swap and enough to test ?

And spend the entire case swap day listening to everyone bitching about having to clean 1 million stubbies, no thanks.

 

[barls]

you could always try a cube swap like the isb did.
each one brews a no chill cube between a set upper and lower og doesnt matter what style.
on the day each one is given a number and each person selects a number at random from the hat.
the cube is then yours to brew with as you wish.

i find that the limiting factor for case swaps is that people dont want to bottle once they start kegging

 

[haysie]

you could always try a cube swap like the isb did.
each one brews a no chill cube between a set upper and lower og doesnt matter what style.
on the day each one is given a number and each person selects a number at random from the hat.
the cube is then yours to brew with as you wish.

i find that the limiting factor for case swaps is that people dont want to bottle once they start kegging

does that work barls? I thought it was rough enough getting a rancid tallie let alone a cube of it. Maybe us brewers down south have some work to do.

speeeling

 

[barls]

well we have only done one so far, must almost be time for another one. it a risk you take no matter what it is.
we arent much better up here mate finally get 28 down on the list and 3 people dont turn up.

 

[kenlock]

This is my experience of entering a case swap.

Jumped in at the last minute after somebody pulled out and gave it ago. Used Powells Malts and grain mill for the first time.

Brewing was Ok but stuffed up bottling with LME. Therefore, requiring a lot more time for bottle conditioning that is fair and reasonable for a swap. Indicated minimium time on list but when realising it need extending changed date format and stuffed up.

Thereby, a couple of swappers drank crap. This was the only feedback I received. Feedback on forum seemed to cease after a few months from swap date. As I didn't attend swap day, nobody knew me from a bar of soap, therefore no personal connection other than a name on a forum.

None of the above is designed to be critical. Just outlining my experience.

To today! I have been watching the Xmas Swap list and, as we all have an ego, contemplating my involvement. I wouldn't wish to replicate the last experience because I feel that it is unfair to other brewers to swap poor beer. Also, a large part of the swap was to learn more about brewing. Tasting others and comparing tasting notes made from others was certainly very positive. No critic of my beer when it should have been at it's best was a big negative.

Now I if I wasn't going to the USA on Monday for a six weeks I would jump back in and give it another crack. However, given that it I would have to leave a beer on the yeast cake for that time if I was to brew this weekend or return very late September and then brew, I am reticient due to the concern of serving up another substandard offering. And forever tarnishing my name.

Cheers Ken

 

[bum]

I've never been to a swap so I wouldn't presume to suggest how to improve one so please take the following outside of the context of the thread's title.

A few people were trying to coax me to attend the previous swap as a non-swapping attendee and I didn't as I felt it wrong to come to my first swap without actually participating (not saying it is wrong - just that I'd feel like I was coming "empty handed" and it would go against my ethics. I have no problem with someone else being comfortable doing that at all).

A few people have been trying to get me to come to this swap. I've been seriously contemplating it but have expressed reservations as I'm running a brand new system (and method) and have only run one unsuccessful beer on it so far (more from Jord on this soon, I'd imagine) and am not feeling confident enough that I can get to grips with my gear in time to have a really good one ready for the swap. Some of those encouraging me to take part anyway have suggested that as long as the beer is alright I shouldn't worry about it and people will be happy to help me improve my beers. So despite not having put my name down I've narrowed my beer down to two recipes (an ideal and a back-up - both to be brewed). Even got label ideas sorted.

But yeah the events of this and the other thread have put me off the whole idea completely. Not just while I'm sorting myself out on my gear but in general.

Thanks to those of your who've tried to get me to take part and I look forward to meeting as many of you as I can at the forthcoming grain bulk buy.

 

[seemax]

Don't be put off by all this discussion... it's hard to make a group decision using online forums!! It looks a lot worse than it is.