How to get started in Cider. The definitive(ish) guide to beginner&#39

[Anthony.R.M]

Thanks for creating this guide. It really has sped up my confidence to move away from packs. My Cider #3 used store bought juice and Cider #4 used 23ltrs of freshly juiced apples.

Any chances of throwing up some of your recipies Dave?

 

[Airgead]

My recipe is pretty simple. About 15% granny smith. The rest a mix of pink lady and sundowner. This year I split the batch and did half with with CRU-005 and half with 71B. Not much fancy recipe formulation with cider. its like wine - Ingredients:grapes, yeast.

I'm planning to rack into kegs this weekend so I'll have a taste then and see how its doing. I might chuck in some malic acid if its a bit low. This year the grannies were very sweet and low in acid so I might need some extra.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Anthony.R.M]

Cheers.

My local farmers market had royal gala's on sale for $1/kg. I've juiced them and made up a batch ove the weekend along with some pear juice. I'm interested to see how it turns out.

 

[Airgead]

If you talk to the grower and ask for seconds and windfalls you can often get them really cheap. Like a few/kilo or free. Mostly they throw that stuff away so they are often happy to get rid of it.

Cheers
Dave

 

[eternaldrive]

Hey Dave great guide helped out with planning of cider number 3.
You may want add your views on the following question (a common one for new cider makers).
Help my fermenter smells of rhino farts/rotten eggs ect what's wrong?
Cheers
Nick.

 

[Airgead]

Good point. I'll add that to version 2...

Answer BTW - Thats sulphur. A lot of yeast strains give it off. Most of the time it will dissapate during conditioning but you can minimise it by making sure the yeast isn't stressed. Sulphur is often a sign that the yeast may not have enough nutrient. A little yeast nutrient and it should fix things up. If the cider has been throwing sulphur for a while then a good long cold conditioning time (before bottling) will let the cider dissapate. If you bottle it with the sulphur it will be trapped in the bottle.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Bartman]

Not sure if this is the right place BUT......
new brewer was wondering if I can do test brews in 500ml bottles to get a basic idea of what I put in to what comes out. Can I then just scale up the best brew, or does the smaller fermentation vessel size change the fermentation conditions and therefore the taste so it can't be reliably scaled up?

 

[Airgead]

Should scale up pretty well. Give it a go and see how it works.

I'd reccomend at least 1l as a batch size though. With a 500ml batch, by the time you have wastage to yeast sediment etc you will end up with a thimblefull to taste.

Cheers
Dave

I'm doing much the same thing right now - fermenting 50l as a test batch for 1000l next year.

 

[pk.sax]

Not sure if this is the right place BUT......
new brewer was wondering if I can do test brews in 500ml bottles to get a basic idea of what I put in to what comes out. Can I then just scale up the best brew, or does the smaller fermentation vessel size change the fermentation conditions and therefore the taste so it can't be reliably scaled up?

Take bottle of juice, pour out a cup, drink (optional), sprinkle in a quarter of a teaspoon yeast, cap loosely.
Sit in temp controlled fridge at 18ish or in a cool dark cupboard that is around the same.
Should be ready to carbonate in about 4-5 days, slightly sweet. Might take about 7-10 days to fully ferment out. I pour my cider still-ish.

 

[insane_rosenberg]

Just bottled my first cider:
-12L of Apple Juice. Home juiced with an auger juicer. 10% granny Smith and the balance Pink Lady.
-3 tea bags in 500mL water.
-Juice of one lemon.
Fermented for 4 weeks with Nottingham at 19ºC.
Out of the fermenter it is very cloudy, slightly bitter and tart, with noticeable alcohol warmth (1.056 down to 0.998). Not even sure how out of style these factors are?
1. Will it clear up in the bottle?
2. Should I strain the juice next time?
3. Any other obvious improvements?

 

[Airgead]

1 - yes
2 - meh
3 - see what it's like and adjust to your taste from there.

Cheers
Dave

 

[simplefisherman]

Hi there cider masters, I've been making Cole's apple juice cider ( aka prison hooch ) for a little while, using different yeasts and backsweetening ( or not ) with cloudy apple juice, also using the cloudy apple to naturally carbonate in pet bottles, I think it worked out at 80ml juice in a 2l bottle for 2.5 vol co2. It comes out a bit tart, quite nice and is now my preferred way of doing it.
I had an opened bottle of said coles cloudy apple in the fridge at 3-4 deg, and after a week or so it started leaking out the lid ( was on its side ) and had signs of fermentation. I took it out of the fridge and let it ferment out, I tried a small bit and its quite tangy and ' sharp ' but not unpleasantly so. According to the bottle its 99% apple juice and ( presumably) 1% vitamin c. Says keep refrigerated and consume within 5 days of opening. Does this mean its not pasteurized? I'm thinking about adding this about 1l to a batch of hooch of about 12l for something different.
Basically I'm wondering if this is a bad idea? Am I likely to make anybody ill with this ( aside from the purists hehe ) or is it worth a crack? What would be the fermenting agent, some cold loving wild yeast or a lactic something or other?
Thanks in advance for any advice/ opinion...

 

[Airgead]

What it means is that the bottle wasn't sealed properly (or wasn't cleaned properly) and *something* got in and caused the juice to ferment. Exactly what that something is, I can't say. most likely its some wild yeast. But it could be a bacteria. Or a fungus.

Will it make you sick? Probably not. Will it taste nice? Maybe. Would I add it to to batch of hooch and drink it? No. Should you ad it to a batch of hooch and drink it? Up to you. Probably won't kill you.

Cheers
Dave

 

[simplefisherman]

People of Australia, if you are reading this then I have probably been killed or hospitalised from drinking dodgey cider...
Anyways, probably not worth the risk then ha ha, in the sink it goes.
Out of interest though, what would be the best/ easiest way to encourage some wild yeast ferment, without moving to orchard country?

 

[Airgead]

Wild yeast is easy - just leace it open on the bench. You are liukely to get wild yeast in there. Wild yeast that tastes good though. Different story.

 

[pk.sax]

Dude, apologies Dave, if the thing caught it in the fridge owing to a bad seal, you've probably infected it wih the yeast you've been fermenting bottle batches in the fridge with. If it tastes alright...

Anyway, much fun to you.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Do you need to boil this like beer? or just add yeast

;noob question I know

 

[gap]

No, do not boil apple juice , just add the yeast.

 

[Airgead]

Yep. No need to boil. You can boil but your cider ends up tasting like apple sauce not apple.

The boil in beer does a bunch of useful stuff like coagulating protiens and extracting hops. The killing bugs part of the boil is actually secondary.

None of those other things apply for cider and a good big pitch of yeast and basic sanitation take care of the bugs issue so a boil is unnecessary.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Ok cool I just finished putting a brew on.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

My first brew.

 

[Airgead]

My first brew.

Well done that man!

As a very wise man once said... you have just taken your first step into a much larger world...

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Can't seem to upload pics.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

lol think i found it

 

[HalfWit]

Hey, I have three cases Cider I want to condition as quickly as possible. Would it help to CC it or let it sit at room temps? I used Wyeast 4766. Cheers

 

[Airgead]

I condition long and cold but I'm a patient guy.

Why not leave 1 case warm and keep the others cold. The warmer one may condition a little more quickly. Maybe. That way you can drink side by side and see if there is any difference.

Regardless of the temp, the longer the better. Any time will improve it but the longer you can leave it the better it will be (up to a point of course... 3-6 months is the sweet spot for me).

Cheers
Dave

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Ok my first cider;

6 x 2.4lt Woolworths "select' Apple & Pear juice
1 x 2.4 Apple and Blackcurrent juice
1 x 850ml Goulburn Valley Pear juice
1 x lime (rind&juice)
500g light malt extract
250g Dextrose monohydrate
250g maltodextrin
1 x 8 g Harvest white wine yeast (SN9)


I would just like to thank Dave for his recipe.Although i did plan to follow it the brew shop owner talked me into adding the extra sugars.
I have a few questions tho.
1. Whats a good start point for the cider to fully ferment out ?
2. Because im after a sweet brew for the wife i bought 1 kg of maltodextrin in case it turns a bit dry when is the best time to sweetin it ?
I have the Fermenter set at 18-21*C (old fridge)
Thanks again for the help

 

[Airgead]

Brewshop owners love convincing you to buy that extra kilo or so of sugar because that's where their profit margin is.

Regular shop bought juice will get you to about 5-6%. Maybe more. Freshly squeezed juice can be up to 9% in a good year.

Adding the extra sugars will add a percent or two. The malt will also add a beery flavour which may be a good thing for you but if I tried it my missus would refuse to drink it.

SN9 will dry everything right out except for the maltodextrin and the pear. That will leave you with a little residual sweetness. You could also add some lactose to taste after fermentation finishes. Never used maltodextrin myself but its only partially nonfermentable so I'd add it during fermentation. Otherwise it will be all ready to go, you will add the malto and fermentation will kick off again. Lactose is all nonfermentable so you can add it after. Not sure how much malto is appropriate having not used it. Maybe someone who has could comment on that.

I'd be tempted to forget the maltodextrin, see how it goes with the pear and add lactose after fermentation. Unless your missus is lactose intolerant in which case don't. That would be very bad.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Brewshop owners love convincing you to buy that extra kilo or so of sugar because that's where their profit margin is.

Regular shop bought juice will get you to about 5-6%. Maybe more. Freshly squeezed juice can be up to 9% in a good year.

Adding the extra sugars will add a percent or two. The malt will also add a beery flavour which may be a good thing for you but if I tried it my missus would refuse to drink it.

SN9 will dry everything right out except for the maltodextrin and the pear. That will leave you with a little residual sweetness. You could also add some lactose to taste after fermentation finishes. Never used maltodextrin myself but its only partially nonfermentable so I'd add it during fermentation. Otherwise it will be all ready to go, you will add the malto and fermentation will kick off again. Lactose is all nonfermentable so you can add it after. Not sure how much malto is appropriate having not used it. Maybe someone who has could comment on that.

I'd be tempted to forget the maltodextrin, see how it goes with the pear and add lactose after fermentation. Unless your missus is lactose intolerant in which case don't. That would be very bad.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

LOL cool thanks Dave. After two daus of ferment it smells very nice. How long bf the old girl can scoff the stuff.