How Old Is Too Old

[normell]

Nearly 3 years ago I was badly hurt at work, so I've not brewed again until just lately.
First brew was with a My Brew pilsner, with a beer improver kit, that were both 3 years old, and it came out pretty bloody ordinary.
So what goes off over time, the cans, the dry malts or both.
Have got a **** load of both cans and improver kits in the cupboard ????

 

[Guest Lurker]

The cans for sure turn ordinary pretty fast and I would be inclined to ditch all of them. Not sure about dry malt.

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Dry malt lasts longer than liquid, mebbe boil some up in water, cool, and taste?

I would ditch the cans, after 3 years the malt is turning darker and coarser and starts decomposing--I bet some of your cans have a bulge in top and bottom, indicating decomposition. I doubt any of the yeast that comes with the cans is alive

Jovial Monk

 

[jayse]

I'll add too the throw the cans out arguement also!
Best tip them on the compost and go get yourself some nice fresh ones, as far as how old is too old its a little hard to say as you could have brand new cans but they may have been left on a pallet on a warf in tibet for 2 weeks in the sun and be to old already. :unsure:
Anyway get your cans from a shop with a good turn around of cans and throw your old ones away or give them to someone else who brews ordinary beers anyway! <_<

Jayse

 

[spog]

just reading the post here and have always been under the impression that canned foodstuffs come under the non perishable label to a certain degree,ie air tight etc,etc maybe i am or have just stated the obvious but,jovial monk,is there a reaction in the tin with brew worts or???? i am or am i reading too much into the post on this subject.?

 

[dicko]

Spog,
I cant explain the reaction or degredation of the malt in the kits but some time ago I got some old kit tins from a HB shop in whyalla that was closing down and although they were ales the malt had gone really dark.
I continued on and made the first one but it was so bad, I through the other two tins out.
I would agree with GL, the monk and jayse and only use new tins of malt or kits.
Cheers,

 

[Backlane Brewery]

QUOTE]
just reading the post here and have always been under the impression that canned foodstuffs come under the non perishable label to a certain degree,[/QUOTE]
Every can of stuff- from spaghetti to cat food- (often taste the same) has a use by date these days. Check it, allow for your own cast-iron gullet (I once ate Vegemite two yours after its best-before) and then decide. If hopped malt deteriorates in the can (and there is no reason to think it won't) then ditch yr cans. Did you taste them? Were they mousy/stale/off?

The yeast packets may be OK- rehydrate before use. Ditto the sugars- stir/mix/boil to "unclump" them.

 

[Weizguy]

Old malt oxidises or degrades with exposure to light, heat and air, and caramelises to become dark, I believe.
In old kits, the hops (mainly iso-hop) has degraded and most of the bitterness is gone. Hop aroma and flavour also, gone.
Test brew another one if U need to satisfy yourself. Or U can take our word that they're waste of time unless U R just brewing to get p!ssed, rather then to enjoy the flavours in the beer rainbow.
I recently made a beer from an old kit. It was still in date, but as it was a Pilsener, I was dubious that the delicate flavours were still there. Turned out to be a dog, even though I used a great lager yeast. Some of my friends like it, as it's a smooth pils. It just tastes weird.
R U here for the beer or the alcohol?
Uncle Sethule

 

[Guest Lurker]

Hi Spog
Ray Daniels says: Browning reactions involve a colourless molecule like a sugar reacting to become a coloured molecule like a melanoidin or a pigment. Browning reactions happen during boiling, and they also happen much slower without boiling. They dont need oxygen, so they can happen in a tin. One of the controls is the amount of water, and it turns out that the reactions go best when there is only a small amount of water is present, which is exactly how liquid malt is in a tin. So he states "liquid extract that has spent a long time in storage will darken considerably".
That doesnt necessarily explain why old extract tends to taste foul, but does explain how it gets darker while sealed in a tin.

 

[fergi]

yes i can agree with tossing out all the old cans,i had 6 coopers cans that i had for 2 years or more,they were 18 months out of date but as i decided to get back into brewing i used a coopers draught with yeast courtesy of <under the lid> it started fermenting ok but color of the malt in the can was really dark,anyway it only fermented for about 2 days so i bottled it anyway.left it for two weeks and then couldnt wait to see if it was ok,tasted like cats piss so i chucked the rest of them in the bin,just on this i always look at the home brew shelf of my local supermarket while the missus shops for all the non essential stuff,and i came across some cans that were 18 months out of date,so much for stock control there and i am talking about a really large supermarket chain here,so doesnt matter what price they have their cans out for i wouldnt buy them,anyway can you imagine going up to the check out chick and asking what temp should their coopers lager or muntons ale be fermented at,<duh>
cheers


fergi