How Far Can Wild Yeast Float?

[brett mccluskey]

I rarely end up with infections, but one of the batches being drunk at the moment (a lovely American Brown from JZ book) appears to be a gusher. I open the bottle and foam keeps pouring out for at least five minutes. To my taste, theres nothing to suggest an infection, and a mate who has brewed the style several times before seems to think its OK as well. Is it possible that some infections dont present themselves as a bad taste or flavour at least in the short term?

This is a thread i'm taking a lot of interest in. I also have a grape vine within 2 meters of where i brew and run into the fermenter.I brew when the vine is in fruit and ,again, haven't had any issues.Grapes are laden with wild yeast.The odd gusher that i get now and then i've always put down to something on my part. ie:touching the inner surface of a bottle cap with my fingertip,etc.I'd think that if it was a wild yeast infection,then the whole batch would be shit ,not just the odd gusher or 2.And,yes, I think that infections can can have an effect on presentation,gushing ,etc,before it becomes apparent in the flavour.If it happens in a Belgan ale ..look out (personal experience)

 

[haysie]

Chappo floated from QLD > SA. Thats wild alone, but if he caught up with Butters we have a new clone of xxxx69, a cross between QLD and Butters 1469 affiliation!

 

[brett mccluskey]

Chappo floated from QLD > SA. Thats wild alone, but if he caught up with Butters we have a new clone of xxxx69, a cross between QLD and Butters 1469 affiliation!

Can i buy an oz of whatever you're on? :kooi:

 

[goomboogo]

Can i buy an oz of whatever you're on? :kooi:

I doubt there is any left.

 

[brett mccluskey]

I doubt there is any left.

"There's nothing more morbid,lonesome,or drear,than to go to your stash and you ain't got no gear :super:

 

[Lecterfan]

Of the gushers I've had (all up), 2 batches I considered undrinkable due to flavour, but 3 were just incredibly carbonated, and although they had a lot of carbonic bite (I think that is the term), once cold they were drinkable (after the initial 5-10mins of ooze from the bottle). As far as whether they then would have developed off flavours I don't know as my friends and I drunk about half of the bacth in one session (once I realised it was a high maintenance pourer) and then I simply dumped the rest.

I've never had gushers in just one or two bottles...it's either been the whole batch or not at all...that is what led me to bleach bomb everything in my arsenal at the start of this year.

I've only ever had one bottle explosion, 4 years ago on a humid summer day just as a front moved through and the barometer dropped quite quickly...the sort of weather that trout almost land at your feet in. :icon_cheers:

I don't think my problem was from a flowering tree or anything, I think there was simply a stubborn mongrel infection nestled nicely somewhere inconspicuous; taking its revenge on mankind for having a more highly developed central nervous system.

 

[bconnery]

It's my understanding that a good clean yeast will stop any foreign yeasties along with good sanitation of course. Perhaps if you're not getting a fast vigorous ferment going the wild yeasts are taking over. I would also, if you can, change your fermentor. It could be housing some unwanted nasties in there that even with proper sanitation might be hanging around. I would eliminate all other possibilities before spraying the tree, because that may not solve the problem.

Good clean yeast and sanitation won't solve anything if it is a wild yeast infection. These occur when the yeast gets into your beer during the brewing process. Fast starting fermentation doesn't fix the issue and it doesn't matter how clean your equipment is.

I can't say for certain whether spraying the tree will work.
I used to get them occasionally but suffered a bad run of these last year.
As I can't be certain what particular plant or time of year causes them I've had to take steps instead to eliminate the problem using a different method.

I use a kind of no chill ish thing, based on a method given to me by another brewer who also suffered with wild yeast for a period.
I can't say that it is best practice, I can't say that its the only solution, but it works for me.

I give the wort a quick blast with the chiller to drop the initial temp a little, then transfer at no lower than around 75-80C. I don't measure anymore, just give it a quick chill and transfer via silicon hose to the fermentor.
I then use the brewing fridge to chill this down.
Yes it does put a load on the fridge but overnight it is ready for pitching and the process works.

I haven't had wild yeast issues since this was implemented.
I don't bother thinking about whether it is a time of year it might be safe anymore, I just use this all the time.

It's a bit of a pain in some ways but not as much of a pain as when you start to notice the beginnings of the infection and realise that another batch is about to go down the drain...

 

[brett mccluskey]

Good clean yeast and sanitation won't solve anything if it is a wild yeast infection. These occur when the yeast gets into your beer during the brewing process. Fast starting fermentation doesn't fix the issue and it doesn't matter how clean your equipment is.

I can't say for certain whether spraying the tree will work.
I used to get them occasionally but suffered a bad run of these last year.
As I can't be certain what particular plant or time of year causes them I've had to take steps instead to eliminate the problem using a different method.

I use a kind of no chill ish thing, based on a method given to me by another brewer who also suffered with wild yeast for a period.
I can't say that it is best practice, I can't say that its the only solution, but it works for me.

I give the wort a quick blast with the chiller to drop the initial temp a little, then transfer at no lower than around 75-80C. I don't measure anymore, just give it a quick chill and transfer via silicon hose to the fermentor.
I then use the brewing fridge to chill this down.
Yes it does put a load on the fridge but overnight it is ready for pitching and the process works.

I haven't had wild yeast issues since this was implemented.
I don't bother thinking about whether it is a time of year it might be safe anymore, I just use this all the time.

It's a bit of a pain in some ways but not as much of a pain as when you start to notice the beginnings of the infection and realise that another batch is about to go down the drain...

Has anyone actually had a sample of their 'off' beer analysed to comfirm that's a 'wild yeast'? There seems to be a lot of assumption going on <_<

 

[ekul]

BCconnery- What is the purpose of chilling the wort down a little bit before putting them in the cube? Is it to do with bitterness?

I really think the no chill is what i'm going to have to do. Which is good cause i needed to buy a bigger chiller anyway, mine takes forever, so now i only have to buy some cubes.

 

[bconnery]

BCconnery- What is the purpose of chilling the wort down a little bit before putting them in the cube? Is it to do with bitterness?

I really think the no chill is what i'm going to have to do. Which is good cause i needed to buy a bigger chiller anyway, mine takes forever, so now i only have to buy some cubes.

I'm not putting into cubes but into the fermenter. It isn't really no chill as such.

My understanding of no chill is that it is important to put it in as hot as you can but as I don't use that technique definitely don't trust my knowledge!

 

[ekul]

I see. I'd heard it has to be as hot as possible too, thats why i was asking
I just put an order in at g&g for some phos acid and i'm going to buy some bleach a little later. This brewery is going to be so clean i'll be able to eat off the floor, or at least brew without infection

 

[gregs]

Luke Ive been reading your thread on wild yeast infection with interest so if you dont mind I will run over some things here that you probably already know. Considering that wild yeasts are in everyones air space, and considering we all brew using different methods, the wild yeasts would have to be in large enough counts to do the damage if you have your sanitation practise in order, Im not saying you dont, Im sure you have although Im not sure if your using Starsan or not, as this product unlike other sanitation products actually creates an environment that bacterias and yeast cannot live in. It works by lowering the PH down to a non inhalable level. Then when you add your wort the low PH is overcome and the environment is now acceptable for your chosen yeast. If this is carried out in the shortest time frame possible the risk of infection is reduced.

So my thoughts are to put down a brew in your usual manner and use the no chill method with Starsan sanitation in the cube, also have a 1-2 litre plastic bottle on hand with the same sanitation. Cube the beer in the usual manner and also fill the bottle half full and squeeze only half the air out and invert and roll around. After it has cooled without taking the lid off, shake the bejeezs out of it so hopefully it oxygenates then see if it ferments in any way on its own. If it does the original half squeezed bottle should expand and pressure up. Then you would think you definitely have a problem with wild yeast, and then we can deal with that problem.

 

[ekul]

Today i found the source of the problem. At the very bottom of my 60L fermenter there was a brown dot, it was tiny. And it was still there after 2 days of napisan, 3 days of bleach and a day of vinegar. I tried to get wipe it away with my finger and 'whats this? A bloody scratch!!'. So today i went and bought two new 25L fermenters from bunnings. Really liked the 60L fermenter but at $70 a pop i couldn't really afford to replace it. And then i realised that i have changed everything in my kit!

New kettle, silicon siphon hose, fermenter, taps, little bttler and mash paddle (only cause it snapped). THe only thing left to replace is the bag, but i have to do that anyway as the dog chewed a little hole in it a few weeks ago. He only likes the spent grain cause i give it to the cows! Bloody jealous dog. He'll get in the feed bin and start chowing it down, must make thepoor old bugger so crook. Does the same thing when i feed the chooks greenery.

So what i think happend is that the tree gave me the initial infection. Then it stowed away in the scratch of my fermenter, cursing everything that was brewed. But now that nightmare is all over. I have 46L of golden ale and 46L of coopers pale ale sitting in cubes right now. So tmo after the fermetners have had a soak i will resume making great beer. So the good news is i will soon have 10 cartons of beer (approx cost $400) and i only had to spend half of that on wasted grain and new equipment, so i'm still in front. Homebrewing is awesome like that!

Thankyou everyone for your input.

 

[manticle]

I rarely end up with infections, but one of the batches being drunk at the moment (a lovely American Brown from JZ book) appears to be a gusher. I open the bottle and foam keeps pouring out for at least five minutes. To my taste, theres nothing to suggest an infection, and a mate who has brewed the style several times before seems to think its OK as well. Is it possible that some infections dont present themselves as a bad taste or flavour at least in the short term?

If you're not already, chill one right down overnight then allow to rise to whatever temp you drink your beers at and see if it still gushes.

 

[ekul]

If you're not already, chill one right down overnight then allow to rise to whatever temp you drink your beers at and see if it still gushes.

How does that work manticle? Sometmies when i'm in the brew shed i will open a beer off the shelf to see if its ready, and sometimes it will gush out. HOwever once its cool it will no longer gush out. Is it to do with high temp and reduced pressure so all gas comes out of solution?

 

[manticle]

CO2 goes back into solution at cold temps and comes out at warm temps. I remember I had trouble with some gushing beers (that hadn't previously been so) that tasted fine.

Butters suggested chilling right down, then allowing to warm if need be. I can't remember the theory as to why beer chilled to 7 degrees is more likely to gush than beer chilled to 1 then allowed to warm to 7 and I'm not sure I'd know where to search for the thread. I know it worked though and if I can find it, I'll link it.

Meanwhile someone else may be able to explain.