How do you secondary?

[Adr_0]

I'm actually looking at going back to using a separate FV for doing secondary fermentation. The main driver for this is flavour development, though there is an added bonus of clarity going into the bottles (trub-free). I actually purge a bit of CO2 into the secondary FV before I fill, and bottom fill - which minimises disturbance. I'd say this is about as low as oxidation risk gets.

Do you do your secondary in the primary FV, with a few weeks after you've hit FG? What sort of temperature do you do it at? Happy with your beer or think it could be cleaner?

If you use a separate FV for ales, do you go 15°C, 10°C, 4-8°C or lagering temps? Do you do this for high gravity and Belgians, or also for lower alcohol malty beers (e.g. bitter/ESB/porter)?

 

[indica86]

What is secondary? And also why?

I ferment, cold condition and bottle.

No issues with flavour development and happy with my beer.

 

[manticle]

If something needs a long bulk age or cold condition (so by long roughly more than 3 weeks post fg but could be over a year in some circumstances) I'll transfer. Of those, the shorter end are transferred to a clean cube which is sealed and kept cold/cool. The longer end is glass with silicon bung -pain to siphon, needs reseeding for carbonation, otherwise good).
Most beers are transferred from primary vessel to keg.
I used to secondary everything, later I switched to transferring for bulk priming only. In both cases I reckon I left more shit behind than I do now but it's a few extra days in the keg and stuff is clear and clean enough.

If concerned, I'd consider kegging, sealing for a day or so and just flushing the headspace, then re-kegging but I don't think it's worgh the extra hassle to save a day's wait.
I've also found fining does the same in less time but I generally don't fine.

 

[Barge]

+1

If something needs a long bulk age or cold condition (so by long roughly more than 3 weeks post fg but could be over a year in some circumstances) I'll transfer. Of those, the shorter end are transferred to a clean cube which is sealed and kept cold/cool. The longer end is glass with silicon bung -pain to siphon, needs reseeding for carbonation, otherwise good).
Most beers are transferred from primary vessel to keg.
I used to secondary everything, later I switched to transferring for bulk priming only. In both cases I reckon I left more shit behind than I do now but it's a few extra days in the keg and stuff is clear and clean enough.

If concerned, I'd consider kegging, sealing for a day or so and just flushing the headspace, then re-kegging but I don't think it's worgh the extra hassle to save a day's wait.
I've also found fining does the same in less time but I generally don't fine.

 

[Rocker1986]

I've never used a secondary fermenter except for bulk priming reasons.
Usual ale process is ferment the brew, let it sit another few days or so, drop it to 0C for another week/10 days (depending on laziness), then keg/bottle. Lagers the same except left at 0C longer before packaging and a D-rest employed before this. I usually do the bottling first so that the majority of the crap around the tap on the FV goes into them instead of the keg, though. Works fine for me at least.

 

[Blind Dog]

Why do you think a second FV will aid flavour? As far as I can tell the only reason to transfer to a 2nd FV is to avoid yeast autolysis, otherwise conditioning with the highest amount of yeast in the original FV would seem to be a better option as it will clean up off flavours quicker (in my e perience). If you're transferring too much trub to bottles, maybe look at bulk priming which has a lower risk of oxygenation as the now active yeast will scavenge a fair bit.

The opening question isn't meant to be a smart arse comment BTW, just genuinely interested if you've read/thought/concluded something as I've always struggled with the ubiquity of secondary FV usage on US forums etc

 

[BDD]

Have never done a secondary. I'm sure it would come in handy when certain beers require a long rest time but other than that i am not too concerned. Also I'm super lazy.

 

[mtb]

I do a secondary ferment only to lower the trub bed before bottling (otherwise I feel that trub gets sucked out of the spigot). Probable paranoia though!

 

[welly2]

If I'm bottling the entire lot (which I try not to), I'll transfer to a secondary fermenter via my auto-siphon, bulk prime and then bottle but if I'm just kegging, I'll cold crash for three days or thereabouts and then just siphon straight into my keg, avoiding sucking up any trub. I'm sure a little bit of trub may get into the keg but not enough worth being concerned about.

Not sure if it needs to be any more complicated than that, for me anyway. My beers, other than the recent English bitter debacle, come out crystal clear and tasty.

 

[Jack of all biers]

I secondary ferment for all beers, bar Weizen (or when I'm lazy with the odd ale). I admittedly brew lagers mostly, but even with ales I find that the reduction in trub in the bottle is better and the secondary ferment allows me to leave the brew for weeks to cask condition, without the worry of potential autolysis. The only chance that flavour MAY be improved by use of a secondary vessel is the longevity of cask conditioning as opposed to risking autolysis by leaving it weeks or months in a primary. My experience is that with longer cask conditioning (for weeks or months) the beer will often become rounder in flavours and more consistent between bottles because it has had a longer time as one large mass to do what young beer does best. Mature.

Generally for ales I primary for 2 weeks and secondary for 3-4. With lagers for me, the secondary is a must. Again the reduction of trub and other particulates by racking the brew out of the primary fermenter aids clarity in the final bottled product.

I also bulk prime so I guess I rack the beer twice, but find that if done with care for sanitation and oxidation minimisation, the multiple racking does not effect the flavour or longevity of the beer.

 

[Hpal]

I used to use a secondary ferment for clarity. But now I just do the primary ferment, raise temp a bit for a lager to finish off, then cold crash to clear and then bottle or keg. I think every time the beer moves there is a chance for an infection or oxidation, so it stays in the FV until it is kegged.

 

[danestead]

There is no option for not doing secondary on the list

 

[warra48]

How do you ferment twice?

My yeast does it all in one hit, no need to do another fermentation with new yeast.

I've never understood the obsession with "secondary" fermentation.

Let it ferment out for 2 to 3 weeks, cold condition as is for another week, and bottle or keg.

I don't believe in making life more difficult than it needs to be.

If others have good proven technical reasons for doing a "secondary", I'm willing to listen.

 

[mtb]

How do you ferment twice?

My yeast does it all in one hit, no need to do another fermentation with new yeast.

No new yeast is added - it's called a secondary fermentation because you use a secondary vessel, separating the fermented beer from the trub at the bottom of the fermenter.

 

[Bribie G]

Really?

Secondary fermentation is a hangover from the days when home beer brewing was a side interest of wine makers, and they adapted the equipment and methods they felt comfortable with.

There are still hangovers from that era such as airlocks, carboys and so called secondary fermentation.
When doing a wine fermentation of weeks or months it's necessary to get the wine off the lees, grape skins whatever after the initial vigorous fermentation and seal it away under airlock to carry on slowly.

Often the primary fermentation takes place in a different type of vessel so transferring to secondary frees that up for the next batch.

Doesn't apply to beer.

Racking to a second vessel is sometimes done to cleanse and condition the beer, as in lagering or bright tank storage, but secondary is an incorrect term.

 

[mtb]

Agreed Bribie, it's misleading. "Secondary" applies to the vessel not the fermentation so the term is completely false.
As for your general comments on secondary ferment - I think it's done for different reasons than for wine personally. For example I use this step to collect yeast cake early so I can use it in the next batch (which I usually start before the first batch is bottled)
Do you not think airlocks are relevant? If anything else they're effective at measuring fermentation activity, bubbles per minute/second are an easy measure that most brewers can understand

 

[Mikeyr]

Agreed Bribie, it's misleading. "Secondary" applies to the vessel not the fermentation so the term is completely false.
As for your general comments on secondary ferment - I think it's done for different reasons than for wine personally. For example I use this step to collect yeast cake early so I can use it in the next batch (which I usually start before the first batch is bottled)
Do you not think airlocks are relevant? If anything else they're effective at measuring fermentation activity, bubbles per minute/second are an easy measure that most brewers can understand

Airlocks are great for letting you know when things have started, but can be really misleading in terms of when things have finished! And lagers ....%$#@*&!!!

I think Bribies a glad wrapper, its a cult thing, you have to be invited and there's a handshake.

 

[Killer Brew]

Airlocks are great for letting you know when kittens have been trying to get into your beer, but can be really misleading in terms of when things have finished! And lagers ....%$#@*&!!!

I think Bribies a glad wrapper, its a cult thing, you have to be invited and there's a handshake.

FTFY

Tried glad wrap on my third brew and never looked back. I have started doing secondary again the last few brews as I was having trouble getting by brews to drop clear and the trub was getting up to tap level because of the amount of dry hopping. I think that if I kegged instead of bottled then I wouldn't do so.

 

[Rocker1986]

Airlocks are about as effective at measuring fermentation activity as a tape measure. Any wonder you see countless threads all over the web along the lines of "my airlock isn't bubbling, help!!!" They don't mean a bloody thing except gas is moving, and that only works if you manage to get a good seal on the lid and the grommet, if not it just escapes out there and the airlock stays still.

I haven't quite gone to glad wrap, but I no longer use my airlock on the FV. In its place is a piece of gaffer tape.

Sorry, OT -_-

 

[mtb]

The way I see it is, if it's not bubbling, all bets are off (so I agree with you on that - too many other factors that can cause this). However, if they are bubbling, they're the quickest way available to check whether fermentation is still active, and roughly how active