Historically Accurate Baltic Porter

[Halowords]

My goal/plan is to make a Baltic Porter in the style of the old English Porters. That means I want a hefty amount of Brown a/o Amber Malt (probably both) and a bit of smoked malt. I'm thinking of something like this:

10.5 lbs. Munich Malt (61.1%)
3.00 lbs. Brown Malt (16.7%)
3.00 lbs. Amber Malt (16.7%)
1.00 lb. Hardwood Smoked (Rauch) Malt (5.6%)
0.50 lb. Black Patent Malt or Chocolate (Possible, but probably not)

OG: 1.092

Any thoughts on the ingredient list? I'm wondering replacing three pounds of Munich Malt with Flaked Oats (roughly 17% of grist) for a smoother mouthfeel and taste; probably not authentic, but would it taste o.k.? Are there any noticeable flaws in the recipe design either with or without the Oatmeal (excluding my lack of hops at this stage)?

Also not sure on the yeast. Looking for some kind of lager yeast, since it is a Baltic, and aging it for quite a while.

All opinions/ideas welcome, although I want it to be a brown-style, hence no Roasted Malts/Barley unless I break down and throw in the BPM or Chocolate for color and to add that all-so-important fifth ingredient. Thank you in advance.

-Cheers

 

[Malnourished]

OK, let's see...

I'm no expert on historical porters or modern Baltic porters, but I think if you're trying to replicate what was once brewed in England for export to the Baltics you would want to do the following:
- replace the Munich malt with British pale malt (Munich seems to be used by modern Baltic breweries, but there's no way the Brits would have used it in the 19th century or earlier)
- use an ale yeast (again, lager yeasts are only used by the breweries actually located in the Baltics)
- don't use the oats (though I love oatmeal stouts - I reckon it'd be great with about 15% oats but I doubt it'd be historically accurate)

Other thoughts:
- if it were me I'd go with the 1/2 lb. of black malt, otherwise I doubt you'll get it dark enough, plus if you're gonna age it a long time anyway it should smooth out. The Durden Park Beer Circle historical porter recipes which don't have black malt are all 1/3 each pale, amber and brown malt and your current recipe only has half the brown malt of that
- I'd go without the rauch malt. From what I've read of really old beers "smoak" was considered a fault, though it's probably all relative. I bet you'll get a bit of smokey character with brown and black malts anyway

And on the other hand if you want to brew a modern Baltic porter a la Zywiec do the complete opposite (and don't forget the borlotti beans!)

 

[Halowords]

And on the other hand if you want to brew a modern Baltic porter a la Zywiec do the complete opposite (and don't forget the borlotti beans!)

[post="67117"][/post]​

Thanks for the reply.

I'll probably still keep the Oatmeal; not sure about the Rauch or Munich Malts. I guess I'm shooting for a more modern interpretation in some regards while avoiding the Roasted Barley a/o Black Malt that would associate it too closely with a Stout Especially the Roasted Barley. Also, I want to use Amber and Brown Malt in a recipe, and just threw a pound of BPM into an Oatmeal Stout I brewed a little over a week ago. A nice, complex beer with a chocolatey note and a lot of nice layers. I would not at all be opposed ot amping up the Brown a/o Amber Malts to a 33/33/33% split between Brown, Amber, and Pale Malts as the base malts, as long as it would still taste good and ferment alright. Color/darkness really is not a concern for me on this one.

My only requirements for this beer are that 1) It tastes good after a nice, long aging process, and 2) fits the mold for a brown-style of Porter. If that would include a small amount of Black Malt, then I would be open to that. But I'd like to keep it in as close to a Brown Porter than a Robust Porter as possible.

Still going to keep it a Lager and thinking about throwing in some Special B; not necessarily authentic, but Lager yeast might add a nice smoothness and a Schwarzbier-like (sp?) quality to it while the Special B might add a raisin-y, caramelly taste to it that might go well with such a complex beer. We'll see.

If anybody has done a Porter that was roughly 1/3 Brown Malt, 1/3 Amber Malt, and 1/3 Pale Malt, I'd be eager to hear how well it turned out.

-Cheers

 

[Sean]

If anybody has done a Porter that was roughly 1/3 Brown Malt, 1/3 Amber Malt, and 1/3 Pale Malt, I'd be eager to hear how well it turned out.

-Cheers

[post="67122"][/post]​

Talking about amber and brown malts without saying who's seems to me to be drastically short on information. Joe Whites Amber and Fawcetts Amber (for example) are very different beasts (44 EBC vs 100 EBC and corresponding levels of flavour).

 

[Halowords]

Talking about amber and brown malts without saying who's seems to me to be drastically short on information. Joe Whites Amber and Fawcetts Amber (for example) are very different beasts (44 EBC vs 100 EBC and corresponding levels of flavour).

[post="67128"][/post]​

My choices are either Briess, or homemade according to Ray Daniels' or something along those lines.

-Cheers

 

[Malnourished]

Another thing you should consider is that with a large proportion of non- to low-diastatic grains (amber, brown, oats) you'll need a base malt with a pretty hefty diastatic power. I doubt either Munich or British pale will get the job done. Same goes for the 1/3 Pale, Amber, Brown recipe though if you're desperate you could probably cheat and add some alpha amylase enzyme.

And if you're worried about it being too "robust" you could replace the black malt with some dehusked Carafa.

I'm sure whatever you brew will turn out nice, anyway.

 

[Darren]

"I would not at all be opposed ot amping up the Brown a/o Amber Malts to a 33/33/33% split between Brown, Amber, and Pale Malts as the base malts"

This sounds familiar!



"Still going to keep it a Lager and thinking about throwing in some Special B"



Where will you get the special B from? IIRC, it went out of production a few years ago.

cheers
Darren

 

[Halowords]

Another thing you should consider is that with a large proportion of non- to low-diastatic grains (amber, brown, oats) you'll need a base malt with a pretty hefty diastatic power. I doubt either Munich or British pale will get the job done. Same goes for the 1/3 Pale, Amber, Brown recipe though if you're desperate you could probably cheat and add some alpha amylase enzyme.

I'm a little worried about that to be honest. I found a recipe following that same basic pattern on the Internet, and their "Problems" section noted they needed a whole 4 oz. bottle of A.A. enzyme. I'm sure I'll think of something; my Black Patent Malt-based Oatmeal Stout needs the secondary for a while to age and mellow before I can worry about another beer to be honest.

And if you're worried about it being too "robust" you could replace the black malt with some dehusked Carafa.

I'm sure whatever you brew will turn out nice, anyway.

[post="67166"][/post]​

Thanks for the advice/encouragement! The only thing stopping me from using Carafa is that I don't want it to be too similar to my Oatmeal Stout (which has 1 lb. of BPM and 0.5 lb. of Carafa I). If I throw in Oats, BPM, a/o Carafa I, I'm creating what is essentially a second-running beer of my last one. However, I did post to get some advice on this, so I will consider all opinions, including this one.

Where will you get the special B from? IIRC, it went out of production a few years ago.

cheers
Darren

[post="67169"][/post]​

I think Briess still makes a Special B; I know it still gets used in a lot of Belgian ales, so there should be a few distributors of it. I believe my LHBC had some last I checked a couple of weeks ago, not 100% sure if Briess was the brand, I just know that's the malt of choice for my shop.

-Cheers

 

[Darren]

I think Briess still makes a Special B; I know it still gets used in a lot of Belgian ales, so there should be a few distributors of it. I believe my LHBC had some last I checked a couple of weeks ago, not 100% sure if Briess was the brand, I just know that's the malt of choice for my shop.

Are you in Australia?
darren

 

[bradmcm]

I've not seen Briess in Australia, ever.
I'm prepared to be proven wrong though

Weyermann CaraAroma is very close to "Special B".
If we could still get Adelaide Malting crystal, then....

 

[Halowords]

Are you in Australia?
darren

[post="67189"][/post]​

Sorry, I'm in America. Just pointing out one example of a distributor that makes Special B.

Another question, is there any advantage to using Amber Malt AND Brown Malt vs. just using one of the malts (Probably Brown)? Just wondering how much difference there is between the two flavor-wise.

-Cheers