High efficiency and low malt taste

[nathan_madness]

Has anyone else found that when your efficiency gets up around 95% you don't get very good malt flavours?

 

[slash22000]

Nope, because nobody gets efficiency around 95%.

 

[nathan_madness]

Well I consistently get between 93-96% so it's possible.

 

[chunckious]

Are you hitting your OG?
Is your eff based off volume into your FV only?

 

[sp0rk]

Nope, because nobody gets efficiency around 95%.

If you BIAB and crush to flour, it's possible

 

[QldKev]

95% and also good beer is very hard to achieve.

 

[Adr_0]

Well I consistently get between 93-96% so it's possible.

Are you hitting your OG?
Is your eff based off volume into your FV only?

If you add 1-3% in error of SG, volumes etc then it's probably in the 90's and diluted like a boss...

...so yes, you are probably getting tannins and very low extract with the last sparge up to pre-boil.

...Assuming your mash temperature isn't 60-63°C and/or your temperature measurement isn't out of calibration. Tannins/low extract do give a thin, astringent taste though.

What is your brew method? Fly sparge, BIAB?

 

[nathan_madness]

Yes, I hit my OG and sometimes over by a point or two. My batch size is always 25L and I have never had much less than that.
The efficiency is calculated by BeerSmith. My current brewing method is recirc BIAB with a 13L sparge using the a slightly modified Hochkurz step mash.

 

[mckenry]

How are you measuring your numbers? Refrac or hydrometer? Checked them against water and a known SG solution?
I thought my efficiency was getting better, by 10% no less, due to a few tweaks, crush gap, underletting etc, but my refrac had moved 5 points!! Eff was really still 75%.
My mash efficiency is however, close to 90% - you're not reading that are you?

 

[Adr_0]

Yes, I hit my OG and sometimes over by a point or two. My batch size is always 25L and I have never had much less than that.
The efficiency is calculated by BeerSmith. My current brewing method is recirc BIAB with a 13L sparge using the a slightly modified Hochkurz step mash.

Ah, ok. I'm not a BIAB-er, so someone please chime in and dispute or reinforce as required...

What are your actual temperatures and how well are you holding your dextrin rest? It may be that it's not long enough or you're over-shooting it and denaturing your alpha amlyase enzymes. Is the sparge necessary, and are you squeezing the bag - which may extract tannins?

 

[Adr_0]

How are you measuring your numbers? Refrac or hydrometer? Checked them against water and a known SG solution?
I thought my efficiency was getting better, by 10% no less, due to a few tweaks, crush gap, underletting etc, but my refrac had moved 5 points!! Eff was really still 75%.
My mash efficiency is however, close to 90% - you're not reading that are you?

I would definitely say that by the time you accumulate volume and SG error the actual efficiency is probably in the low 90's.

Maybe you are over-sparging Nathan?

 

[Screwtop]

Has anyone else found that when your efficiency gets up around 95% you don't get very good malt flavours?

Yes definitely! Have been reducing the amount of sparge water by taking 9L (for a double batch) from the sparge water volume in my HLT and transferring this directly to the kettle. This reduces my sparge volume by 9L (from an average of 33L down to 24L), all targets remain the same, less astringency, more maltiness. I'm still working on upping less dextrinous malts such as crystal etc to improve this. Spent years on working toward maximum fermentability and dry beers. No my mash efficiency is in the 90's I need to work on increasing malt profile.

Screwy

 

[nathan_madness]

I will try and use half the amount of sparge water next brew and see what happens. Worst case if I don't hit targets because of the percentage drop I can easily add a little DME to bump up the numbers.

I am currently planning a 3v system that should help control all these things better. BIAB is just to difficult to replicate brew after brew.

 

[Screwtop]

I will try and use half the amount of sparge water next brew and see what happens. Worst case if I don't hit targets because of the percentage drop I can easily add a little DME to bump up the numbers.

I am currently planning a 3v system that should help control all these things better. BIAB is just to difficult to replicate brew after brew.

Just to clarify, I still prepare the same volume of sparge water but use 9L less of it for sparging, the 9L goes straight to the kettle. Here's how it goes for a double batch using around 9Kg of grain. I prepare 64L of water (filter and adjust PH) in the HLT and heat to mash temp, say 66°C. Drain 30L from HLT to the mash tun and add the grist, give a stir and close up. Start recirculating (HERMS) and during the sacch rest heat the remaining water in the HLT to 77°C for sparging. While ramping to Mash Out temp I drain 9L from the HLT to the kettle leaving 25L for sparging.

Hope this helps,

Screwy

 

[nathan_madness]

Ok, i've done 3 brews over the weekend all light ales and done different processes to each one to see what would drop my efficiency.

1. Dr S Golden Ale - Kept same mash schedule milled the grain a bit bigger and lowered the sparge to 13L. Efficiency 83.5%
2. Blonde Ale - Kept the same mash schedule milled the grain same as Dr S and sparged with 13L. Efficiency 92.5%
3. Belgian Pale Ale- Change the Mash Schedule milled the grains finer as usual and sparged with 13L. Efficiency 68.8%

My original mash schedule was:
Mash In at 35deg rising to 42deg and hold for 15min
Rise to 56deg over 10min and hold for 30min
Rise to 62deg over 8min and hold for 30min
Rise to 68deg over 8min and hold for 45min
Rise to 72deg over 5min and hold for 30min
Rise to 76deg over 5min and hold for 10 min
Sparge with 80deg water

New (not so efficient mash schedule)
Mash In at 35deg rising to 42deg and hold for 15min
Rise to 57deg over 10min and hold for 20min
Rise to 66deg over 10min and hold for 40min
Rise to 72deg over 5min and hold for 10min
Rise to 76deg over 5min and hold for 10 min
Sparge with 80deg water

 

[manticle]

Try a cooler sparge. Anything between 72 and 76 suits me.