Herms for beginners

Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum

Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

scooterism

Well-Known Member
Joined
24/10/15
Messages
556
Reaction score
87
Can someone point me in the direction of some kind of 'Herms for beginners' please?

I've AG'ing for a good while, but the holiday season has seen me step up to a Herms 4V set-up with a SmartPID controller.

I made a batch last week-end, apart from fckin' up the grain bill (young fella distracted me, mis-measured),

it seemed to go well. (even first time fly sparge)

The sticky thread here seems to go straight for the deep end with laminar flow and wot-not.

I'm just looking for a guide or something for noobs.

Pls halp!
 
I know it's some heavy reading but if you haven't read the whole sticky thread, do so, most of your questions should be covered, maybe just not straight up.
I don't know what you do and don't know! So a little hard to come out of the gates and point you to exactly what you need.
Give us a quick run down of how your previous system worked (BIAB, Grainfather,BM etc). There are basics to using any recirculating mash system.
Give us a run down of what your recent Herms day missed, or what you think you stuffed up!
 
You need a pot anywhere from a couple of liters up to 50 liters . My pot is 7.5 lt with 3mtrs of half inch cooper pipe in it with an inlet from the pump and an outlet with a hose attached that goes to the mash tun . My heating element is a cheap chinese immersion element ( works a treat ) plugged into my control box . Others use a kettle element and affix it to the pot . See Gash Slug on youtube he has some good tutorials on this sort of stuff . This PDF is from a magazine excerpt I hope it helps .
Cheers
Hermies
 

Attachments

  • Hermes.pdf
    961.1 KB
You need a pot anywhere from a couple of liters up to 50 liters . My pot is 7.5 lt with 3mtrs of half inch cooper pipe in it with an inlet from the pump and an outlet with a hose attached that goes to the mash tun . My heating element is a cheap chinese immersion element ( works a treat ) plugged into my control box . Others use a kettle element and affix it to the pot . See Gash Slug on youtube he has some good tutorials on this sort of stuff . This PDF is from a magazine excerpt I hope it helps .
Cheers
Hermies
That PDF sure goes into some detail, but the idea is to have your desired mash temp, the highest temp through out the system, this would be at the exit of your HX. The enzimes you are targeting are in the wort, if the highest temp is say 70, to raise the mash bed to 66, the the wort that passed through the exchanger @ 70 will have been denatured to some extent and you won't achieve your desired out come.
 
I agree it does go into some detail but I set my mash temp for say 66*C and my probe is at the outlet of the HEX . The wort reaches 66*C and the mash is lagging a few degrees but I am not interested in the mash temp , as you pointed out I am targeting the enzymes so I don't need the wort to be a higher temp than the mash temp .Thus not denaturing the wort to any degree at those temps . Everone does it differently I am not saying it is right or wrong I do it my way and I find it works for me .
 
Imagine you're watering the lawn and someone lifts up the hose and plonks some of it it in a lit fire. You will notice the temp coming out of the hose has increased.
  • If you slow down the flow rate the temp will increase.
  • If you coiled the hose into the fire a few times the temp will increase
  • If you increase the heat of the fire the temp will increase
  • If you light a second successive fire and lay some hose in that, the temp will increase as would another and another. (this would also give you more tune-ability as you could take the hose off one of your ten fires and slightly reduce temp etc)
Once you were happy with the temp you pull some hose back out, stop stoking the fire, put one fire out etc. This is where you would start tuning your temp and your Heat Exchange.

Imagine putting a pot full of water on the fire/s instead and you put the hose in that. All of the above would still apply but now you would have a more stable heat exchange. It is more stable because the flames aren't just hitting the hose here and there, they are heating the bottom of the pot which is heating the mass of water inside. Oil would be more stable and is used inside the jacket of some mash-tuns. So you could imagine your pot being full of oil as well.

Now imagine that the water is not coming from the tap but from a tank instead. The hose comes down from the tank outlet and feeds into a pump. The pump pushes the water through the coils of hose inside the pot/s and back to the tank. The tank water will slowly warm up. To measure the maximum temp that the tank water is getting heated to, you might have a temperature gauge on the outlet of your hose as it exits your pot (which you could now proudly refer to as your HEX ~ Heat Exchanger).

Instead of having a fire you now have an urn (or a few urns) and you put your coil of hose in that instead. You understand that you can change the temperature of your urn and you can set it to maintain your desired temp. There may be some fluctuation in temp as it possibly drops a little just as the temp has dropped and it registers that it needs to turn on.. It will also shut itself off the boil once the target temp has been achieved but may end up slightly over-shooting the temp. After a while you would learn to predict those overshoots and tweak your Urns temp to get a closer, more stable set-temp. That is what (amongst other things) a PID would do for you. It starts to tune the temp to lessen the temp fluctuation. I do it with the round knob on an Urn with my hands. In music terms you could ask yourself if your a DJ that uses a computer to mix your music or knobs and buttons where everything is more hands on.

As you now want to take the temperature higher and then hold it, you would turn the knob on the urn up to your set temp and you may also slow your flow rate by partly closing the valve. A PID would start backing off the heat as it neared your desired temp. A PID may have had all the times and set-temps set in it's memory and you walk out to a mashed-out beer ready to transfer to kettle.

Hope that helps. Excuse the spelling, grammar etc - no coffee yet and it's calling baby
 
Previously, I used my 3V set-up, single infusion, batch sparge. My brews went well, but I decided I want more precision and control, plus I like building stuff!.

Here are some pics of my upgrade.

26230908_10210859347340352_7351537837671083241_n.jpg


26229714_10210859347100346_9062097730266832417_n.jpg

26239491_10210859346820339_2423956268184327353_n.jpg

26903918_10210859346420329_9118558135115544387_n.jpg

26229389_10210859345700311_2860681596802420859_n.jpg

26815404_10210859345300301_8053879383509857257_n.jpg

26239142_10210859345060295_2671488496629173079_n.jpg

26731457_10210859344780288_5910505748164999766_n.jpg

26734184_10210859344580283_5127564408017764656_n.jpg

26230812_10210859344100271_3403061511472246836_n.jpg
 
One question that's comes to mind is doughing/mashing in, previously I pre-heated my MT, added grain then strike water, gave it a stir, let it sit, stirring occas then voulaouf then batch sparged.

My first run, I did the same, just after I vouloafed, I started the recirc, let it do it's thing then fly sparged.

Is this accecptable or is there a better/easier way?

One little side question, can I mash in 'cold' as Noonan describes in New Lager Brewing?
 
Only tips beyond what you've done, is that rest period is mandatory after your stir, also start your recirc off slowly and increase flow over 5-10min (these steps together are called setting the grain bed). You could underlet to mash in, this avoids dough balls. Yeah you can mash in cold, but you'd need to set the grain bed before setting the timer and walking away.
Also high cereal or wheat bills should have rice hulls added to prevent a stuck bed/sparge, this also applies to reiterated mashes. All of this applies to any recirculated system

Nice job on the hex looks like a beauty.

MJ
 
well, based on your photos my response was a complete waste of time - hopefully someone will benefit from it

MJ what is this setting of the grainbed you speak of? I mash in cold and do not do any slower flow rate than what the recirc will be set at for the duration
 
well, based on your photos my response was a complete waste of time - hopefully someone will benefit from it

MJ what is this setting of the grainbed you speak of? I mash in cold and do not do any slower flow rate than what the recirc will be set at for the duration
your leaving over night, so not as critical.
 
well, based on your photos my response was a complete waste of time - hopefully someone will benefit from it

MJ what is this setting of the grainbed you speak of? I mash in cold and do not do any slower flow rate than what the recirc will be set at for the duration

On the contrary Sir.

;)
 
In the photos, do see anywhere where I've done wrong or where I can make a change?
 
Looks pretty good, I'd be on the side of having a spare of the little brown pump, and maybe upgrading those over time. That hex is over the top.... not a bad thing! But it will do you for the rest of your brewing life, no matter how big you go. 5/8th tube?
 
Looks pretty good, I'd be on the side of having a spare of the little brown pump, and maybe upgrading those over time. That hex is over the top.... not a bad thing! But it will do you for the rest of your brewing life, no matter how big you go. 5/8th tube?
The little brown pump is just for recirc the hex water, I figured with the coils being bound there most prob would a temp difference either side of the coil if you know what I mean.

Yes, 5/8ths tube, 1/2 ID like my whole system.

But will look into getting a spare pump.

Another ?, the first pic shows my HLT w/ a brown pump for recirc, is this a good place for a temp probe?
 
If the HLT recirc is doing a whirlpool type thing all good.

The spare pump is to make sure brew day don't go to crap half way through:eek: refer to my sig.
 
Its not doing a whirlpool as such, but a week or so after I go back to work in a couple of weeks, I will try and make that happen.
 
Faaaark mate can I have one of those . Seriously nice job on the HEX .What you need to do now is stop asking questions and just brew, so by brewing you will learn to do it your way and make damn fine beer and probably a few mistakes along the way but that is just brewing .And what MJ said especially the spare pump doesn't hurt .Oh I can see where you have done one thing wrong you didn't give it too me ;)
 
How would you get the liquid out of an upright system like that?
I had a chiller coil here that I chucked in an urn and was always worried that you can never get all the liquid out as both in/out are looped over the top of the urn.
I know what my fermentor looks like if I don't leave it open and upside down after a scrub to dry out.
 
How would you get the liquid out of an upright system like that?
I had a chiller coil here that I chucked in an urn and was always worried that you can never get all the liquid out as both in/out are looped over the top of the urn.
I know what my fermentor looks like if I don't leave it open and upside down after a scrub to dry out.

If you can run your sparge water through the HERMS you'll have no such problemo, it works for me.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top