Herms coil vs immersion chiller where to use my 18m

[Navin]

Hi guys,

I've been looking at buying some annealed copper to make a wort chiller and 18m (1/2") is the best value (I'll call around the air conditioning places before committing to the big green shed). I like the idea of future proofing my brewery for potential upgrades the best I can so I don't buy too much of the same type of gear.

I'm currently brewing in a keggle with a megajet burner and a 40L mash tun cooler. I was thinking of putting 5m of the 18m aside to save for a potential herms coil later on leaving 13m for an immersion chiller. 13m should be plenty for single batches but would this be inadequate if i move into doubles. Is 13m and 5m a good split to potentially do both jobs in the future? Alternatively just commit to 18m chiller and worry about a herms coil when i get to it.

Before I get a HLT (which much love for gadgetry will probably lead to when money allows) i was thinking of buying a pump and pumping my mash wort through the 13m (or 18m?)of immersion coil sitting in the keggle heating up the sparge water. With a bit of fiddling with the gas flow can i get a more stable temperature this way? How much hotter do you run your HLT than your mash to transfer adequate heat? I imagine it would be altered by both flow rate and HLT temp and just need some dialing in. A first run target could be good though.

Thanks in advance.

Navin

 

[funnelweb]

Hi guys,

I've been looking at buying some annealed copper to make a wort chiller and 18m (1/2") is the best value (I'll call around the air conditioning places before committing to the big green shed). I like the idea of future proofing my brewery for potential upgrades the best I can so I don't buy too much of the same type of gear.

I'm currently brewing in a keggle with a megajet burner and a 40L mash tun cooler. I was thinking of putting 5m of the 18m aside to save for a potential herms coil later on leaving 13m for an immersion chiller. 13m should be plenty for single batches but would this be inadequate if i move into doubles. Is 13m and 5m a good split to potentially do both jobs in the future? Alternatively just commit to 18m chiller and worry about a herms coil when i get to it.

Before I get a HLT (which much love for gadgetry will probably lead to when money allows) i was thinking of buying a pump and pumping my mash wort through the 13m (or 18m?)of immersion coil sitting in the keggle heating up the sparge water. With a bit of fiddling with the gas flow can i get a more stable temperature this way? How much hotter do you run your HLT than your mash to transfer adequate heat? I imagine it would be altered by both flow rate and HLT temp and just need some dialing in. A first run target could be good though.

Thanks in advance.

Navin

Hi Navin

I have made a sort of "redneck" HERMS (almost) the way you're describing it. I use my copper-chiller - 12 mtrs. - as a chiller(!) AND as a heat exchanger for controlling my mash temp. However, I use 2000W immersion heating elements and a digital PID temperature controller with a SSR relay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/PID-Digital-Temperature-Control-Controller-REX-C100-K-Sensor-25DA-SSR-/350925445870?pt=Mess_Pr%C3%BCftechnik&hash=item51b4c95aee ) to adjust the temp. while the coil is in the HLT (wich is also my brew pot). This way you are able to control the mash temp within app. 0,5° to 1°C (dep. on your tubing) and you do not have to monitor the mash proces. And if you wan't to do a mash out you just rise the temp on the controller and it will do the heating for you...digitally controlled. A cheap and reliable solution I've been usin for quite some brew now

Oh, and by the way, for circulation of the wort i use scilicone tubes and one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-Solar-Powered-Circulation-Hot-Water-Pump-12L-M-3M-15W-Panel-Solar-Battery-/301238075120?pt=AU_Pool_Spa_Beach&hash=item4623303ef0
Best regards

Folke

Ps.: Sorry for my English

 

[Hawko777]

Hi
I would use the coil in your herms and just buy a plate chiller. I've done both ways and the plate chiller works great.
I pump hot wort through the plate chiller and whirlpool back into the boiler to bring temp down quickly, then flick the tap over to the fermenter and i usually get around 20 - 22deg C .
This way all your trub stays in the boiler too and you get nice clear carry over.

 

[MastersBrewery]

or use the coil in your HLT and get an ice machine, end of boil fill HLT with ice, chillin done!

 

[a1149913]

I made an immersion chiller out of the whole 18 metres, worked great. When I upgraded to a 3v system, I just re bent the coil into my Herm's coil (around a 19l keg). I only ended up using about 10 -15m of it. Now when I chill, I just fill my hlt with cold water and a bag of ice and run the wort through the coil and back into my kettle. Cools down just fine. I can also run straight from the kettle, through the coil and straight into the fermenter at 19c (slowish flow though).

At the end of the day, the copper can be re coiled so Dont stress about loosing that copper

 

[TheWiggman]

Generally speaking the longer the chiller coil the better.
Judging by your MT size I assuming you do single batches. In this case 3m is plenty for your HERMS coil, leaving you 15m for the chiller. Which is also plenty.

Before I get a HLT (which much love for gadgetry will probably lead to when money allows) i was thinking of buying a pump and pumping my mash wort through the 13m (or 18m?)of immersion coil sitting in the keggle heating up the sparge water. With a bit of fiddling with the gas flow can i get a more stable temperature this way? How much hotter do you run your HLT than your mash to transfer adequate heat? I imagine it would be altered by both flow rate and HLT temp and just need some dialing in. A first run target could be good though.

You can definitely get a fairly stable temperature due to the amount of water in the HLT, but considering you have an esky I wouldn't bother unless you're doing step mashing.
Evidence I've seen shows you want to run the HLT about 0.5-3°C hotter than the desired mash temp. It's different for each system and piping arrangement. As for 'transferring adequate heat', this is a bit of an open question. Ideally you want your HLT to be the same or just above the MT temp (see 0.5-3°C above) because it's going to come out at the same temperature as the HLT anyway once you've got to your control temp. All it will do is transfer energy/heat from your HLT to your MT until they're both the same temp.

Consider...
If the whole system is cold consider the pump is running water through the HLT coil. You apply heat to the HLT, and the heat gets sucked out by the water in the MT. As you apply more heat, more heat gets sucked out by the MT. Eventually both systems will reach the same temp, but with minor losses in the hosing between the vessels and out of the MT, the HLT will be slightly hotter to keep the temp in the MT where you want it.