Help With Mongolian On Natural Gas

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Barley Belly

Head Brewer - Barley Belly Brewery
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I'm trying to setup my new Mongolian burner to run on Natural gas but the flame blows out once I try to turn it up? Any ideas?


Here's how I set it up:-
I have a 23 jet LP jetted model with 13 of the jets removed and blocked off and the other 10 jets re-sized to 1.2mm for Natural Gas on the advice of Auscrown (I plan to keep the remaining jet for LPG if we ever move house or I wanna brew elsewhere). I have used my natural gas BBQ hose and regulator along with a gas ball valve and 300mm of gal threaded pipe.

Any ideas? Wrong jet size? Wrong regulator?

Here's some pics

gallery_7556_761_47178.jpg


gallery_7556_761_16887.jpg


gallery_7556_761_73313.jpg
 
This is the reg I'm using with a 23 Jet Mongolian on NG:
P1010134.JPG

I did not block off or resize any of the jets. The Mongolian came standard from Grain & Grape. I have a good range of control where I can have the burner just trickling or going full guns where you absoltuely feel the heat from even a couple of meters away.

My guess is it's your regulator. How far is the run from your T point (t from mains) to the bayonet?

reVox
 
I was going to try it without the reg (only to see if it was the reg and then get a new one) but the reg is double female and I don't have an adapter.

Not 100% how far it is from the mains. I was running it from the gas bayonet for the BBQ, which has around 12 foot of piping running around the BBQ area and into the brick wall and the gas meter is on the opposite side of the house. So maybe at least 50 foot from the meter???

So you think the prob is not enough gas pressure??

The reg I'm using runs a four burner BBQ plus wok burner fine and I also use the BBQ wok burner on it's own (drilled out a bit) to do single batches in my 40l pot. It's just a little underpowered and were looking for more grunt.
 
This is the reg I'm using with a 23 Jet Mongolian on NG:
View attachment 46132

I did not block off or resize any of the jets. The Mongolian came standard from Grain & Grape. I have a good range of control where I can have the burner just trickling or going full guns where you absoltuely feel the heat from even a couple of meters away.

My guess is it's your regulator. How far is the run from your T point (t from mains) to the bayonet?

reVox

When you say standard. It was a standard Natural Gas model?

I didn't wanna run the full 23 jets as I only really gunna be doing singles in a keggle.
 
Well I know I shouldn't have but I'm a curious ******* so I just ran the burner without the regulator.

Flame is better, can turn it up a little higher and start to pump a little heat, but for some reason the whole ten would never stay alight. When I'd light up the one the went out another one would go out. I definitely couldn't crank it right up though, they just blow out again.

Seams to be possibly running out of volume of gas??? 8-(
 
I'd put all your jets back in and try it again.

I'm no gas expert, but NG runs at a much lower pressure than LPG and you may have stuffed up the air/gas flow.


cheers
BB
 
Just a thought, you have the outside jets set in a circle... ie a bit like a whirlpool

Is it possible theyre blowing each other out?
 
Are you using this burner in an enclosed environment (shed or garage) ?

If so be aware that incomplete combustion results in CO emissions ... at fatal levels... so make sure you get it right first.

Personally i would call Keefers or similar and ask them about their range of NG regs.
 
Are you using this burner in an enclosed environment (shed or garage) ?

If so be aware that incomplete combustion results in CO emissions ... at fatal levels... so make sure you get it right first.

Personally i would call Keefers or similar and ask them about their range of NG regs.

Yep
 
Not 100% how far it is from the mains. I was running it from the gas bayonet for the BBQ, which has around 12 foot of piping running around the BBQ area and into the brick wall and the gas meter is on the opposite side of the house. So maybe at least 50 foot from the meter???

So you think the prob is not enough gas pressure??
It is one possibility. I spoke with two different plumbers before installing my run + bayonet and was told it would never work - that I'd never have adequate pressure to maintain the burner let alone crank it right up. My run sounds very similar to yours (in length) but I gather there are many variables from street to street, house to house.

Try this, which may shed light on overall pressure: Light the mongolian and get it as stable as possible (with whatever jets are firing) then have another person in the house light your gas stove (fingers crossed you have a gas stove!) and turn the largest burner up all the way. If lighting the stove kills the mongolian, you probably don't have enough pressure in the system :(

If lighting the house stove (or using other gas appliances) has no effect, you're probably good to go and I'd guess it's a regulator, jet, air-flow issue in that order. FWIW, I can run my mongolian full guns with all gas burners on high on house stove, etc. without issue.

The reg I'm using runs a four burner BBQ plus wok burner fine and I also use the BBQ wok burner on it's own (drilled out a bit) to do single batches in my 40l pot. It's just a little underpowered and were looking for more grunt.

The G&G mongolian I use is here Not a lot of information but the jets are the correct size for NG, no modification was required. I spoke with both the manufacturer (a Vietnamese girl here in Melbourne) and the gas specialist at BBQs Plus Spotswood who both recommended the regulator I'm using. And I purchased from BBQs plus $25 or $30 from memory.

So, if pressure test above is OK, get the correct reg and see if it resolves. If not, next restore the jets to stock (with correct reg) and see if it resolves and work backward plugging 1 jet at a time to retest until you are satisfied with the throw. Final note, these mongolians require a ton of air from beneath the jets so be sure to set it on something with adequate under air-flow. Pic of mine (disregard tape measure - was used to demonstrate length from top of jet to kettle bottom). My burner sits on sheets of powder coated, perforated ss sheeting:
mong_dist.jpg


Best of luck
reVox
 
Natural gas can come ion two flavours depending on where you live. You can high volume low pressure or low volume high pressure. Easiest way to tell is look at the feed to your gas meter from the street. If it's a big feed like 25mm or more it's high volume low pressure. If the feed is 12mm then high pressure low volume. You will need different jets to suit you mongolian.

Cheers


Chap Chap
 
Well thanks for everyones help, especially reVox.

I think I've cracked it, finally.

Well I went out this morning and bought a regulator the same as reVox's from BBQ's galore. Got home, connected all up and shit same thing happening :angry:

So I took some further advice and took the blanks out and put all the Jets back in, even though 13 of them were still jetted for LPG. Started her up and the was working much better with the NG jet holding their flame and only the LPG one blowing out. Then it dawned on me. If you have a look at the jets they pair up , point towards each other and join flame about an inch from the top of the jet and create their joint single flame. That's how the friggin things are designed to work. Otherwise they'd point straight up like a duckbill burner. Why didn't I think of this earlier, probably coulda saved myself on the reg.

Anyway, I ripped all the LPG jets out and re jetted them to 1.2mm and put ten of them back in. You'll see I blanked three off because they don't really join up to any other jet.

I put it all together and fired it up again. And PHARK ME Houston we have ignition

I made up a makeshift stand, chucked my new keggle on and filled it about 3 inches from the top. Approx 40 to 45litres from cold to boiling in just over half an hour :D

Not sure if it gunna be overkill doing single batch boils from mash out temp to boiling but while it was heating up I thought that instead of 10 jets, I could possibly run eight. The four in the middle and the four outside ones they pair up with. Something to try down the track but I'm pretty bloody impressed for now.

Just gotta build a burner stand with wind shields and work what the best distance from the kettle. Thanks again

Here a couple of pics of the new configuration

gallery_7556_761_58706.jpg


gallery_7556_761_62361.jpg


gallery_7556_761_44270.jpg


gallery_7556_761_30642.jpg
 
Me again, are you sick of me yet?

While the young bloke was asleep this arvo I decided to change my burner into an 8 Jet!

Should do keggle single no probs, I reckon.

Here's some pics in action plus a video.

gallery_7556_761_26170.jpg


gallery_7556_761_27991.jpg



 
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