Has mash ph been an improvement for you?

[MHB]

Finished beer should (generally) be in the 4.1-4.3pH range.
I would get a litre or so of beer, add a drop or two of Lactic Acid and measure the pH, bring it down to around 4.3pH
Tip some into a glass.
Adjust the remainder down to 4.2pH, pour some off into a glass
Do the same again down to 4.1
Do a vertical tasting you will find that one of them is standout better - adjust the rest of the beer and enjoy it while you try to work out why its so far off target in the first place.
Call it a process review - something needs fixing.
Mark

 

[MHB]

Yea, dude. A light pilsner vs. an imperial stout aint exactly gonna be close in ph.

Actually the pH of the finished beers wont be as far apart as you think.
Remember that darkest most acidic beers evolved in the highest carbonate waters, to counteract the high pH and bring it down into the optimum mashing range, from there it follows that the finished beer will be pretty close to the same.
Mark

 

[Jack of all biers]

Thanks L
It does, however measure 7 in tap water and line up at 7.2 with my test strips in the pool which are accurate (there's 5ph colours in 0.2 increments) I'd hate to see where my APA and pilsners are sitting.. Could this really be correct, or could it be my meter?

Edit, it's my Meter. Just tried again with the pool test strips and it's almost a full point out.. off to Ebay as we speak

Good that you found the issue so quick. Don't calibrate or judge the accuracy of your pH meter by testing it against water. Tap water (from municipal water supplies) pH can be anywhere from 6.5 to 8.5. So your reading of 7 may be correct, but next time might read 7.1 and still be correct. Better to use calibration solution to test the readings. If they are reading spot on then you can trust your meter for a few readings depending on how well it is manufactured. Even pure water fluctuates in pH and is difficult to read anyway as it is so pure.

Read the attachment to post #10 and also this BYO article about pH. You generally want your beer at pH lower than 4.4, but lower than 4.7 is acceptable. Also search for pH meter on the search function as there are quite a few posts with recommendations for reasonably accurate pH meters.

EDIT - MHB beat me to the punch on the pH range.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Cheers guys. Can we keep the borax ph calibration solution in the fridge to test as we please?

 

[Jack of all biers]

My understanding is that pH calibration solutions are best kept cold to remain as stable as possible for longer. So yes.

EDIT - but don't forget to allow it to warm up to 20-25C before calibrating or your calibration will be off.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Thanks!

 

[MHB]

In commercial brewing and research, there has been a steady reduction of mash pH over the last couple of years.
Mashing quite low is becoming more common (5.1pH) as the low pH disables the enzyme Lipoxeygenase, has a big impact on beer stability and the effects of O2 on packaged beer.
Packaging at lower pH also promotes stability and gives the beer a "fresher - crisper" character.
If you have a decent pH meter its pretty easy to do the experimentation and find where you your beer should be for your palate.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Cheers MHB. Sounds like yet another emerging clue to the mystery of my shiddy beer and why it's just never quite right. I'll get there

 

[MHB]

PM me with your location and a phone number we might be able to work through a few basic checks that will help pin down the problem.
With most brewing its a matter of getting the basics right - then look at refining the process.
Mark

 

[evoo4u]

Any suggestions for a new meter anyone?

Long story, but I have a new Hanna 98128 surplus to requirements - $150.

I've been using my original 98128 for a couple of years, but recently couldn't successfully calibrate it. It rejected the 7 solution. I changed the electrode over with an old one, and then it accepted the 7, but rejected the 4.

Getting a bit cheesed off, and suspecting that moisture may have got in and played havoc with the electronics, I ordered a whole new meter and a spare electrode as well.

The new electrode solved the problem! A Hanna techie also told me that testing for pH in hot solutions was severely detrimental to the life of the electrode, and to restrict temps to <30C. I had been abusing the electrode by measuring at mash temps!!!

So that leaves me with a great working pH meter, also a new and unused 98128 if you're interested.

 

[laxation]

I bought one of the cheapo ones off ebay to give it a try.

It comes with 2 x 250ml test sachets. Do I just mix up the entire sachet in water and leave it in the fridge, taking out a little bit to test each time?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I Googled the rates. You can get quite a few uses from each sachet of borax. Sounds like the same ****** one I bought.

Well, the results of my first ph corrected brew are in and as someone previously mentioned, there's an actual mouthfeel difference. One I was readily experiencing in many commercial beers but assumed was brewing salts. So now this first ph corrected brew is quite a bit drier tasting and yes, acidic. You can literally feel the freshness on your tongue

I don't experience anything else apart from that. The malt flavour itself isn't 'fresher' or more pronounced, it's possibly a tadd less tasty than usual but that could also be due to who knows what else. Time will tell for sure

 

[MHB]

I have seen several references to Borax as a calibration standard, I hope people realise how accurately you need to measure both masse and volumes to be able to make reliably standards. I wold seriously want a 3 place (0.001g) scale at a minimum. A standard that isn't reliable is a bit like a condom - gives people a false sense of security whilst being screwed!

Here is a link on preparing standards "Preparation of pH buffer solutions" at a quick look it appears reasonably reliable, not like some of the other sites that turned up.

 

[laxation]

I Googled the rates. You can get quite a few uses from each sachet of borax. Sounds like the same ****** one I bought

Did you weigh out some of the solution and then mix with water, or mix the whole lot and use part of the watered down solution?

 

[MHB]

I buy 1L bottles from my local Scientific Supply (Australian Scientific) along with electrode storage solution and even calibration solution for my TSD meter (just phoned them 1L of pH7 is $25+GST), lasts me several years and at least I can be fairly confident its accurate.
Use about 50mL/standardisation, don't tip it back into the bottle...
Mark

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Did you weigh out some of the solution and then mix with water, or mix the whole lot and use part of the watered down solution?

I weighed out

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I buy 1L bottles from my local Scientific Supply (Australian Scientific) along with electrode storage solution and even calibration solution for my TSD meter (just phoned them 1L of pH7 is $25+GST), lasts me several years and at least I can be fairly confident its accurate.
Use about 50mL/standardisation, don't tip it back into the bottle...
Mark

Cheers Mark.

The crappy ph meters we bought come with a sachet of 7 and 4.1 solution to calibrate with, that's what Lax is talking about

Lax: you can use the 4.1 solution as a short term storage solution if kept refrigerated (meters need to be stored with probe in storage solution. Yes, nice of our manual to tell us that..)

 

[Beerandpies]

I have ph 5.2 stabiliser for my next brew as tge last quarters report was 6.8. Does anyone else use this? It'll be my first time

 

[manticle]

Very dubious about its efficacy.

6.8 is presumably your water pH? Mash pH is what is important. Water (esp mineral content) can affect mash pH but water pH, in and of itself, is fairly unimportant.

 

[mondestrunken]

What about pH indicator strips? Last time I checked they were like 20c each, much cheaper than a pH meter.

Also, water adjustment suggestions on a national forum are fraught as there are so many conflicting goals.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Noooooo. Please don't. Testing ph requires strict accuracy. Ph strips can be too far apart to be worthwhile using. You can do more harm than good with those (Says John Palmer in his latest revision of "how to brew")

 

[GalBrew]

I have ph 5.2 stabiliser for my next brew as tge last quarters report was 6.8. Does anyone else use this? It'll be my first time

This stuff is garbage, don’t let it anywhere near your beer. There are plenty of threads about it if you search the forum.

 

[laxation]

Does anyone have a PH adjustment calculator for dummies?
Like where I can put in my PH and it tells me what to do?

I am extremely non-scientific and get a headache just looking at a lot of the **** in the calculators I've seen

 

[mtb]

Bru'n Water!

ed: you may see it and think it's not for dummies.. but I was able to use it. So yes, yes it is.

 

[droid]

I'd imagine anyone wanting to drop their sparge water pH would start by knowing what that initial pH is. So measuring water pH has it's place.

 

[laxation]

Bru'n Water!

ed: you may see it and think it's not for dummies.. but I was able to use it. So yes, yes it is.

I gave it a go, does this look right?

 

[mtb]

I gave it a go, does this look right?

Can't know for sure without seeing what you entered as your Existing Water Profile.

Also that looks like an older version, make sure to grab the latest which I believe is 1.18

 

[laxation]

I've got 1.18a - fresh off the site
this is the water profile, based off what info i had from the Yarra Valley report. They didn't have everything, and have only mean values (for the whole area) for some things

 

[manticle]

I'd imagine anyone wanting to drop their sparge water pH would start by knowing what that initial pH is. So measuring water pH has it's place.

Absolutely. Just don't use it on its own as an indication of how to get to target mash pH.