GUTEN

[Fro-Daddy]

Would it? Testing conversion doesn't necessarily show you extraction.

 

[Grok]

It would suggest if you still have starches to convert, you haven't finished mashing.

 

[Fro-Daddy]

I don't believe that is related to stirring.
That's like saying you should iodine test before and after a sparge, because you might not have finished mashing. Makes no sense.
Both are ways to get already converted starches in to the liquor.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I do a 90 minute mash and I haven't used the iodine test for years, I agree with Fro-Daddy, I think the grain was converting, but the other factor is the no sparge. Had I sparged then could have been getting better efficiency. Any how I will see how I go with regular stirrings just to prove either way whether efficiency has improved.

 

[PTG]

Has anyone been successfully doing triple batches in the 70L version?
Im currently running the 40 but want to smash out multiple kegs of quaffers as well.
Time to brew can be hard to find between work so when i get a chance need to be able to smash it.

 

[bird]

Has anyone been successfully doing triple batches in the 70L version?
Im currently running the 40 but want to smash out multiple kegs of quaffers as well.
Time to brew can be hard to find between work so when i get a chance need to be able to smash it.

I've done 3 brews with 62lt into the fermenter with great success. 75% efficiency On the first brew and 80 plus on the second 2. I run 3 to 1 plus 9lt For the dead space under the malt pipe and then sparge While slowly lifting malt pipe with a whinch. About 5lt of boil off so there is just enough head space to not boil over approx 67lt before boil. Takes about 5hrs with clean up.

 

[Grok]

Both are ways to get already converted starches in to the liquor.

Provided your starches ARE converted. If your sparging, then you have decided to move onto the next process in the beer making chain due to time restraints or boredom or.....?
But do you really know?
Have to ask the question then, why do the commercial brewers have mechanical stirrers?

 

[Fro-Daddy]

Conversion and extraction are different.
Stirring will potentially help with extraction.
I doubt stirring would convert starches.

 

[MHB]

Provided your starches ARE converted. If your sparging, then you have decided to move onto the next process in the beer making chain due to time restraints or boredom or.....?
But do you really know?
Have to ask the question then, why do the commercial brewers have mechanical stirrers?

Mostly to keep the temperature homogeneous. Most stirred mash tuns will have steam heated jackets, if you don't stir while applying heat the malt near the surfaces will get too hot, at a minimum giving inconsistent enzyme activity, at worst denaturing the enzymes near the heating surfaces.
Recirculating systems should not need to have the grist stirred, as the wort should be flowing over the elements too quickly for the enzymes to be damaged, it should then flow through the grain bed heating it (ideally evenly).

I would have a few concerns about some of the designs on the market, low cost elements tend to have high surface heats and can do horrendous damage to the enzymes. Compare the surface area/surface temperature of low cost recirculating systems with even a Braumeister or a commercial tun where the floor and the sides of the tun are heated. It matters and you do get what you pay for.
Very important to crack your grain so that the bed is very permeable, that will help speed up the flow of wort over the heating surfaces and through the grain.
Mark

 

[Grok]

So Mark, what info do you use to make your decision to end your mash and start the sparging process? time? iodine testing? what I did before worked? what everybody else does? or about nowish? or.........?

I doubt stirring would convert starches.

I never said stirring would convert starches, but if stirring helps release more starches for the enzymes to convert, that's gotta be a positive thing, yes? And if a simple and easy iodine test can help you make a decision about that, then that can't be any burden of knowledge to carry, surely!

 

[MHB]

Fair question.
Mostly taste, remember that I'm mostly making the same beer over and over and I taste the brew regularaly, you get a feel for where its at.
That said when developing a recipe yes check with Iodine (well a bit more complex than just Iodine, got a few other bits and pieces in there to make it easier to see how much blue it develops).
Probably wouldn't hurt to be a bit more religious about doing Iodine tests. A combination of tasting the mash regularly (its as much texture/mouthfeel as taste). Doing programed multi step infusions on a big Braumeister usually around 90 minutes in total adds up to the wort being the same every time.
Having taken several refract shots during the mash, knowing its on track and having done the same beer regularly - well haven't had a problem with a brew for a long time.
If you do get a Blue Brew (one with unconverted starch) you will know, it will foam like a demon all the way through the boil.
Mark

 

[Fro-Daddy]

if stirring helps release more starches for the enzymes to convert

I think this is the difference in our view.
I believe that they will already be converted, and the stirring just releases it in to the liquor.
It sounds like you believe they need to be released and then converted.

Do you do iodine tests? I never have.

 

[Grok]

Do you do iodine tests? I never have.

Yes I do, especially make sure I do as I'm playing around with my water profile lately. The test is so easy, don't why you wouldn't!
I just ask myself this, if I'm getting an increase starch presence reading after a stir, my logic is saying there must be some more starch in there, am I missing something here?

 

[Kenf]

Provided your starches ARE converted. If your sparging, then you have decided to move onto the next process in the beer making chain due to time restraints or boredom or.....?
But do you really know?
Have to ask the question then, why do the commercial brewers have mechanical stirrers?

Simple the volumes are far larger!

 

[CyriusBrew]

Well. I have learnt a valuable lesson today. Do not brew a really big beer on the 2nd attempt on new brew gear. That, and pay careful attention to whether the equipment got damaged in the last brew.
Apparently, my malt pipe is a wee bit out of round, as the last brew day it fell off of the stand whilst drying...I did not notice it being off. Maybe it was the falling, or maybe it was from lifting. IDK. Nevertheless, when putting the screens in today, I saw they were a bit harder to get in. I pressed ahead with the brew....
WHilst mashing, the recirc got stuck. I thought I sorted it by stopping the pump, but it seems like it was still stuck, and mash temps went all over the place. So, I started to drain as best I could and put the wort into a cooler. then started a sparged and stirred it.
After that eventually seemed to work, I put the previous wort back into the malt pipe and had to keep loosening the mash for it to drain. (Which it is doing now)

After this brew, I need to figure ways to stop this stuff from happening again. I have not had a stuck sparge in the past 8 years in my 3 vessel.

 

[Grok]

Try malt conditioning, it works a treat!
Also check your water profile, if your down on some of your essential salts, that also has an effect on gum levels I've found.

 

[CyriusBrew]

I am thinking I may need to make some mods to my Guten. Perhaps a permanent steel rod where the handle fits. That would make it safer to handle, and perhaps make the malt pipe a bit more sturdy / warp resistant.
I am also thinking some kind of false bottom or more sturdy bottom steel mesh filter would be nice for it. Time to start googling
..

 

[goatchop41]

I am thinking I may need to make some mods to my Guten. Perhaps a permanent steel rod where the handle fits. That would make it safer to handle, and perhaps make the malt pipe a bit more sturdy / warp resistant.
I am also thinking some kind of false bottom or more sturdy bottom steel mesh filter would be nice for it. Time to start googling
..

These have absolutely no bearing on your issues that you mentioned above though. Those issues are purely down to crush size, grain bill, mash thickness and timing of using the pump

 

[CyriusBrew]

These have absolutely no bearing on your issues that you mentioned above though. Those issues are purely down to crush size, grain bill, mash thickness and timing of using the pump

Most definately, I agree! I am just noticing that I would have had an easier time getting the top screen off if the malt pipe was not somewhat warped. I reckon the steel trod will prevent warpage a bit, and give me something to hook a pulley up to. I also reckon a false bottom would give me somewhat better filtration at the bottom... an cover me in case I bend the lower screen on accident.

I should not mix issues in the same comment.

The mash was very thick. It was a very big beer. The crush was my usual crush, and was not wheat. I did have 50g of roasted barley, but would be surprised if that caused it. Perhaps more water would have helped. I only had 27.5 liters in a grain bill of 10.460kg, as I was saving water to sparge with. It was obviously too thick for this setup.

It was a hell of a day. I was aiming for 1.099, and only got to 1.082, and that was after a lot of boiling. so far a 9 hour brew day including cleanup. (I am still cleaning.) We live and learn.

 

[goatchop41]

The mash was very thick. It was a very big beer. The crush was my usual crush, and was not wheat. I did have 50g of roasted barley, but would be surprised if that caused it. Perhaps more water would have helped. I only had 27.5 liters in a grain bill of 10.460kg, as I was saving water to sparge with. It was obviously too thick for this setup.

Yeah, that would have been an incredibly thick mash, given that you would have been at or below 2L/kg, accounting for the deadspace...

If you haven't heard of it (and if it hasn't been mentioned to you elsewhere), look in to 'reiterated mashing' for your next attempt at high gravity brewing - it is the perfect way of getting high gravity wort with good efficiency on these systems