Gripes about AHB

[Florian]

Just out of interest, I see Adops is an Admin as well with zero posts. Is he on Austin's side doing the technical stuff?

Yes, I believe he is working on software. Austin may be able to give more info on this though.

Ha, got it now, his name is Adops, as in Ad ops.

 

[GuyQLD]

I didn't really want to reply while on my phone, so apologies if the following ends up being a bit hard to read. However,

Those who cite that the place is not the same as it used to be, or find the off topic posts a bit much let me remind you that this is a home brewing site. How much discussion are you really going to encourage on a site with as many runs on the board as this one? The reality is most of us would digest the entire worth of this site (as far as actual information goes) within months if not weeks.

At which point people will either look elsewhere if they want to expand their understanding or they'll hang around for the community aspect.

I'll be the first to say I spend most of my time in the off topic part of the site. I'm only a fairly new brewer (18 months) and I've out grown the vast majority of the stuff here. What I lack now is experience, and that'll only come with time and practice.

There's a reason DASFFS became a thing. The information is out there and available to anyone with enough initiative to go looking and not expect to be spoon fed.

Unfortunately that means robust discussion is going to be mostly a thing of the past, unless we have another biabesque revolution.

And while I'm not intending this to be a rant, I think the best example of how we're letting our self's down is the articles. Many of the simple, repetitive questions that drive people to distraction were all answered in those articles. You want to clean up? Give people access to the information they need easily and encourage people to look for themselves.

Which brings me back to the community aspect, it's a place for like minded individuals to talk about their hobby but we'd all get very bored very quickly if that's all we are allowed to talk about. Obviously I don't condone personal attacks or some of the other behaviors mentioned lately but when you think about the target audience of the site "family friendly" doesn't really come to mind.

Oh, and while I'm on a rant, props to manticle who has probably written about the only half dozen posts in the last 12 months I've learnt anything from. All of which because they pointed me in a direction where I could go and do some further reading off site, since actual proper technobabble doesn't seem to get much air time here.

 

[Bribie G]

GuyQLD could have a good point about the BIABesque revolution thing. I was on another forum for a few years before brewing, the DTV forum, at a time when masses of interesting things were happening:

Introduction of digital TV
Wow Plasmas have dropped below $2000
Plasma vs LCD wars
Flat screen is crap, buy a HD cathode ray tube TV
How dare Channel 7 claim that 576p is High Definition
Will there ever be 1080p Plasmas?
Extra channels and Freeview, a pipe dream?
Blu-ray vs HDDVD wars

And so it went on, and the forum was huge with massive arguments, trolling etc.

Everything has been more or less settled down now, all the above are fading into history and really apart from whingeing about sports coverage most of the posts seem to be along the lines of "My topfield's timer seems to be out", or "best deals on 60 inch LEDs, anyone?

I drop in now and again, but don't contribute much any more.

It could well be that AHB is entering such a phase - we have a very large body of AG brewers, BIAB has earned its stripes as has RIMS, HERMS and Braumeister, and really there's no huge area of controversy or experiment happening much nowadays. So maybe its a good thing that AHB enters a "my airlock isn't bubbling" or "newb wants to make cider" phase. Still a comfy place to knock around in, but if you want the social aspect then the Off topic section is really the place.

I note that there is a UK forum I'm on that is probably as big as AHB and their "tap room" off topic section is mostly brew related anyway, Perhaps the Pub and Off Topic could be merged into a sort of tap room and leave the serious brewing business to the other threads as that UK forum very successfully does.

 

[bradsbrew]

Bribie, that is exactly what we are trying to achieve. Keep the brew shed for technical stuff, use the Pub for general brewing convo that strays to a reasonable amount, use the off topic area as the social area. Use the market place for sales. Drop the personal attacks, snide comments and rudeness(DASFFS is pretty rude). If a post annoys you because its a silly question that the answer is easily found, leave it for someone else to reply or provide a link(LMGTFY is also rude). If a post offends you, report it. If you feel a post has bad advice, politely state your argument. If you state the place is F%$#ed you will be shown the door, that's what I would do at my house.


Cheers

Edit: My personal view as a member

 

[_HOME_BREW_WALLACE_]

I didn't really want to reply while on my phone, so apologies if the following ends up being a bit hard to read. However,

Those who cite that the place is not the same as it used to be, or find the off topic posts a bit much let me remind you that this is a home brewing site. How much discussion are you really going to encourage on a site with as many runs on the board as this one? The reality is most of us would digest the entire worth of this site (as far as actual information goes) within months if not weeks.

At which point people will either look elsewhere if they want to expand their understanding or they'll hang around for the community aspect.

I'll be the first to say I spend most of my time in the off topic part of the site. I'm only a fairly new brewer (18 months) and I've out grown the vast majority of the stuff here. What I lack now is experience, and that'll only come with time and practice.

There's a reason DASFFS became a thing. The information is out there and available to anyone with enough initiative to go looking and not expect to be spoon fed.

Unfortunately that means robust discussion is going to be mostly a thing of the past, unless we have another biabesque revolution.

And while I'm not intending this to be a rant, I think the best example of how we're letting our self's down is the articles. Many of the simple, repetitive questions that drive people to distraction were all answered in those articles. You want to clean up? Give people access to the information they need easily and encourage people to look for themselves.

Which brings me back to the community aspect, it's a place for like minded individuals to talk about their hobby but we'd all get very bored very quickly if that's all we are allowed to talk about. Obviously I don't condone personal attacks or some of the other behaviors mentioned lately but when you think about the target audience of the site "family friendly" doesn't really come to mind.

Oh, and while I'm on a rant, props to manticle who has probably written about the only half dozen posts in the last 12 months I've learnt anything from. All of which because they pointed me in a direction where I could go and do some further reading off site, since actual proper technobabble doesn't seem to get much air time here.

A fair statement Guy, but in the noobs defence, I would like to testify that when I joined the forum, I had never been on a forum before. so I always thought that if I asked for help, and made a well-discripted thread title i could be pointed in the direction of what i was looking for weather it be yeast, sanitisation, blah, blah. This is what i like about this forum, and the odd bit of larakinism aswell (but i guess it belongs in its place). I know i have been a drunken larakin more than once, but i know different now. I am trying to help those who ask now weather that question has been asked time and time before instead of saying DASFFS! In my opinion this will definately scare new comers away and im sure we dont want that (who knows that person may help you out one day with something they know that you dont).

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

A fair statement Guy, but in the noobs defence, I would like to testify that when I joined the forum, I had never been on a forum before. so I always thought that if I asked for help, and made a well-discripted thread title i could be pointed in the direction of what i was looking for weather it be yeast, sanitisation, blah, blah. This is what i like about this forum, and the odd bit of larakinism aswell (but i guess it belongs in its place). I know i have been a drunken larakin more than once, but i know different now. I am trying to help those who ask now weather that question has been asked time and time before instead of saying DASFFS! In my opinion this will definately scare new comers away and im sure we dont want that (who knows that person may help you out one day with something they know that you dont).

I think the important thing to realise is that the larrikinism isn't an issue and never has. A point in question is the IPA - Game of thrones thread. Bloke is clearly drunk, but it's funny, the thread is in the right place, and he doesn't take shots at anyone. Excellent. LRG as a mod ignores it, LRG as a member goes and has a laugh.

It's been abuse toward other members. It's been the nastiness directed at those less experienced on the forum. That's gotta stop. It's unacceptable behaviour in the real world, and it is here.

It's been the deliberate derailing of threads. This frustrates other users who want to post on topic or read or learn. Off topic section allows you to talk about anything not brewing related. It's my personal opinion (as a member) that some of the deliberate derailing has been to target members without being seen to abuse them.

Finally, remember we were all forum or AHB or brewing noobs once. We got something from this site, we should be prepared to give something back. If that's too hard, at least not noob-bashing.

 

[beerkravin]

I lurk here and use google to search the site. I rarely even sign in.
it's not that i dont want to be a part of the site or community, i just want the information im after and move on.
i have seen some ridiculous comments made in threads, had my laugh and moved on.
i dont want to get involved in the rubbish that goes on here, there's plenty of other sites and forums with just as much if not better information that don't have the mounds of bollocks to wade through before you find what you're after.
i think once the site is cleaned up from that i will contribute but for now, while some of the information here is golden, i dont want any part of the crap.
also, just as an observation
if some of the stuff being said was in my house, i would kick people out too.
but if without the people my house is nothing more than a place for a handful of volunteers to compare appendages and tell stories about what they did when kicking people out... it's pretty pointless existing and valuable resources will be lost.
the internet is not real life, this is no-ones house and i think the comparison of that is some sort of justification to carry a big axe to chop down a few weeds.
i dont question the moderators intention, but i do question their methods at times and can see how other members would view it as an abuse of power.
A good starting point would be to encourage the wealth of knowledge that have stopped contributing, have left or have been kicked to return to AHB and contribute again, especially if the moderators are chopping out weeds more vigilantly.
just my opinion, happy to be chopped down and return to the lurkers corner.

 

[Truman42]

I used to cop a lot of shit when I first joined for asking questions that had already been asked. However often I would search the topic either to be confused by the replies I had read or to find contradicting information.
So I would ask the question to see if things have changed, processes are different now etc and inbetween all the smart arses who would say DASFFS, I would usually get a reply from someone decent enough to tell me that its not done that way anymore, or Palmer has changed his position on that now etc etc.

But I would also find members would deliberately hijack my threads to cause trouble then go and brag to their mates on other forums about what they did, like they were internet heroes.
I have seen many a post on other forums about AHB where people have said something along the lines of.."You can find some information on AHB about that, if you could be bothered with all the crap.

Ive also met a few people through brewclub or when selling brew gear, such as beerkravin above who say they only read on AHB as they dont want to cop shit by asking a question and couldnt be bothered with all the shit..

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Yep. There was a LOT of that. Unfortunatly there are just so many threads and posts that it becomes hard to wade thru and decipher it all. Understandable why a newbie would ask.

But bragging on another site...that just shows their level of (im)maturity.

 

[jaypes]

Starting out brewing I learnt a great deal from this site, I also have a thick skin and disregards to what I thought was 'pissed idiots remarks in the big boys club'

I know by now who the great contributors are with their wealth of wisdom and the others who are just on here for they have nothing else to do.

 

[Paul H]

It could well be that AHB is entering such a phase ...... "newb wants to make cider" phase.

WTF I blame those who use fruit ........................it has no place in beer & amongst other things has contributed to the blowout in the budget....

 

[TimT]

Ive also met a few people through brewclub or when selling brew gear, such as beerkravin above who say they only read on AHB as they dont want to cop shit by asking a question and couldnt be bothered with all the shit..

That's very interesting Truman. Been around the web for a while now, on blogs and facebook and forums (though I'm relatively new to AHB) and there's a lot of people who may read but not post for reasons which sometimes seem mysterious (because, well, they don't post! And the net being what it is, you probably don't know them in real life anyway). It pays to be aware of that large, silent audience.

Personally I'm quite happy with threads having space for a lot of goofing off too, but the amount of that that's tolerated is completely up to the site owners and moderators.

One friend on facebook who's a moderator of a largish forum also started another forum, titled 'troll thread' - for all those who perhaps didn't feel fond of the moderation on the first forum, and wanted to blow off steam. Maybe there could be an official AHB troll thread! (Or maybe there already is....)

 

[sponge]

RIP WPMO...

 

[Camo6]

RIP WPMO...

Maybe at the start of it. I thought it became a bit of a noob bashing bitchfest towards the end tho. Only time I thought moderating was overdue on this forum.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

It was supposed to be a WPMO about life in generall, not an AHB/noob bashing thread

 

[AndrewQLD]

It was supposed to be a WPMO about life in generall, not an AHB/noob bashing thread

And that is sadly how a lot of threads end up and something we are trying to prevent.

 

[MartinOC]

:icon_offtopic: Erm.... OK, I've DASFFS (I had to Google that, so no-one needs to say LMGTFY - I had to Google THAT too!).

I understand that certain "cliquey" things have MLA's (Multi-Letter Acronyms), but WTF is "WPMO"?

YES, (that's not an acronym, BTW, but a word in the OED )
I've Googled it & only come up with "World Police Medical Officer", which completely escapes my comprehension in this context.

Any enlightenment to the uninitiated? I'd like to understand the meaning & current context.

A PM is fine (ie. don't clog the thread with crap).

 

[GuyQLD]

A fair statement Guy, but in the noobs defence, I would like to testify that when I joined the forum, I had never been on a forum before. so I always thought that if I asked for help, and made a well-discripted thread title i could be pointed in the direction of what i was looking for weather it be yeast, sanitisation, blah, blah. This is what i like about this forum, and the odd bit of larakinism aswell (but i guess it belongs in its place). I know i have been a drunken larakin more than once, but i know different now. I am trying to help those who ask now weather that question has been asked time and time before instead of saying DASFFS! In my opinion this will definately scare new comers away and im sure we dont want that (who knows that person may help you out one day with something they know that you dont).

And I don't condone noob bashing any more than anyone else. But my point is, no one ever said "DASFFS" to me, because even as a complete noob, who was completely ignorant, I at least made attempts to find things and then asked for clarification. Personally I think some of those "why is my airlock not bubbling" threads should be locked.

I understand that on face value that seems like a not noob friendly principle; however if (and I know I keep going back to the articles example... but that's only because it's easy, don't take it as a criticism) those threads were locked with a simple "This question has been answered (link to articles) here, you can find many other answers to questions you might have in the articles section. If you have read all of the beginners guide to brewing (Did we have one? If not, why the hell not?) on the site and still have questions, please create a new thread with specific title, question etc"

Any way you get my point.

The other thing that wouldn't hurt is providing a bit of direction. I often look at those "style of the week" threads with a bit of sadness that I wasn't around when those were being created. I think that targetted, weekly topics are a fantastic addition to any discussion forum. finding topics is the real challenge (although having a "what topic should be next" doesn't hurt either).

 

[MaltyHops]

Any enlightenment to the uninitiated? I'd like to understand the meaning & current context.

Reference: [ 1 ]

 

[Camo6]

:icon_offtopic: Erm.... OK, I've DASFFS (I had to Google that, so no-one needs to say LMGTFY - I had to Google THAT too!).

I understand that certain "cliquey" things have MLA's (Multi-Letter Acronyms), but WTF is "WPMO"?

YES, (that's not an acronym, BTW, but a word in the OED )
I've Googled it & only come up with "World Police Medical Officer", which completely escapes my comprehension in this context.

Any enlightenment to the uninitiated? I'd like to understand the meaning & current context.
.
A PM is fine (ie. don't clog the thread with crap).

What Pisses Me Off is how these threads get derailed so easily!