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carniebrew

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Moved from the shameless hijacking of this thread: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=980611

For cooling you can stick the pot in a sink with cold water (some people use ice aswell, i never bothered when I used to do it) or you can no chill (which is what I do now) either in a cube, or by covering the pot with glad wrap and leaving overnight.
Glad wrap overnight does sound bloody easy.....though it makes me wonder what John Palmer is on about in section 7.4 where he talks about having to cool the wort quickly?

"But it is very susceptible to oxidation damage as it cools. There are also the previously mentioned sulfur compounds that evolve from the wort while it is hot. If the wort is cooled slowly, dimethyl sulfide will continue to be produced in the wort without being boiled off; causing off-flavors in the finished beer. The objective is to rapidly cool the wort to below 80F before oxidation or contamination can occur."
 

slash22000

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I'd be interested in this answer too. Every American brewing video / article I watch / read talks about how the planet will explode unless you cool the wort from boiling to chilled in <30 seconds, yet every Australian seems to use "no chill" cubes.
 

Amber Fluid

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No Chill in cubes trumps Palmer's theory of "If the wort is cooled slowly, dimethyl sulfide will continue to be produced in the wort without being boiled off; causing off-flavors in the finished beer. ."

That's my opinion though :blink:
 

Nick JD

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Palmer's books is full of un-referenced hearsay.
 

stux

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My take on it is that the effects of extended time at hot temperatures on the late hopping are far more important than any DMS that palmer expects should be present.
 

Nick JD

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My take on it is that the effects of extended time at hot temperatures on the late hopping are far more important than any DMS that palmer expects should be present.
Definately there is more bitterness extracted (100% cube hopping works), but are the flavours and aroma compounds also lost? I'm not so sure - those need active boiling to be driven off, and in a sealed cube condense and re-enter solution.
 

thedragon

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I'm sure that there are many reasons why no chilling does not work and why it's not good for your beer.

All I know is that I've exclusively no chilled. Why? Time. Environmental reasons (save water). Ease.

I enjoy beer. More importantly, I enjoy the beer I make, and so do my friends.

Maybe my taste buds are not attune to DMS. I don't know, but to be honest, I don't care.

Actually there was a basic brewing podcast which presented the results of the ANHBC on differences in taste and environmental impacts of plate chilling, coil chilling and no chilling. Can't recall the detail, although as a one eyed no-chiller, all the podcast did was reinforce my view that no chill is the way to go.

Just my opinion.
 

carniebrew

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Palmer (and others I should say) also talk about the cold break, thermally shocking proteins out of the wort to avoid chill haze. But he goes on to say it's largely cosmetic, and I have to admit clear beer is not something that's ever worried me as much as taste.
 

bum

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Definately there is more bitterness extracted (100% cube hopping works), but are the flavours and aroma compounds also lost? I'm not so sure - those need active boiling to be driven off, and in a sealed cube condense and re-enter solution.
So time alone doesn't drive them off?

I call unreferenced hearsay.
 

bum

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The law disagrees with you.
 

carniebrew

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I'm sure that there are many reasons why no chilling does not work and why it's not good for your beer.

All I know is that I've exclusively no chilled. Why? Time. Environmental reasons (save water). Ease.

I enjoy beer. More importantly, I enjoy the beer I make, and so do my friends.

Maybe my taste buds are not attune to DMS. I don't know, but to be honest, I don't care.

Actually there was a basic brewing podcast which presented the results of the ANHBC on differences in taste and environmental impacts of plate chilling, coil chilling and no chilling. Can't recall the detail, although as a one eyed no-chiller, all the podcast did was reinforce my view that no chill is the way to go.

Just my opinion.
Cheers for adding it. Do you no chill in a cube?

So is anyone able to say that glad wrap over the pot overnight gives the same result as cubing? I figured the idea of cubing was to squeeze all the excess air out of the cube so as not to expose the wort to oxygen. If you put glad wrap over a 50 litre pot with 21 litres of wort in it is that just as good? If so, it just made my willingness to try a full boil a big leg up.
 

thedragon

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Cheers for adding it. Do you no chill in a cube?
Good question. I didn't mention it...

I no chill in a sanitised cube. Hot wort, full to the brim. Any air squeezed out. No head space. Lid on. Turn it upside down to kill any germs in the handle. Turn it back the other way to kill germs in the bottom.

I'd be shitting myself about infection - perhaps unreasonably - if I just did the old glad wrap overnight trick.
 

glenwal

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Cheers for adding it. Do you no chill in a cube?

So is anyone willing to say that glad wrap over the pot overnight gives the same result as cubing? I figured the idea of cubing was to squeeze all the excess air out of the cube so as not to expose the wort to oxygen. If you put glad wrap over a 50 litre pot with 21 litres of wort in it is that just as good?
If your going to ferment the next morning, then overnight in a pot shouldn't be a problem (its something plenty of people do). A big advantage to a cube though is it can be stored for extended periods, so you can ferment at will.

edit:
I'd be shitting myself about infection - perhaps unreasonably - if I just did the old glad wrap overnight trick.
If you put the glad wrap on when its hot, then its going to be pretty sanitary inside due to the heat in the same way the heat sanitises a cube.
 

GalBrew

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Palmer (and others I should say) also talk about the cold break, thermally shocking proteins out of the wort to avoid chill haze. But he goes on to say it's largely cosmetic, and I have to admit clear beer is not something that's ever worried me as much as taste.
I no chill and have never had any chill haze in any of my beers. Have never detected DMS in my beers either, and DMSy beers make me feel quite crap....can't stand it when it's overpowering.
 

stux

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Cheers for adding it. Do you no chill in a cube?

So is anyone able to say that glad wrap over the pot overnight gives the same result as cubing? I figured the idea of cubing was to squeeze all the excess air out of the cube so as not to expose the wort to oxygen. If you put glad wrap over a 50 litre pot with 21 litres of wort in it is that just as good? If so, it just made my willingness to try a full boil a big leg up.
About that glad wrap...

http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic...f=2&t=10869
 

Nick JD

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So is anyone able to say that glad wrap over the pot overnight gives the same result as cubing? I figured the idea of cubing was to squeeze all the excess air out of the cube so as not to expose the wort to oxygen. If you put glad wrap over a 50 litre pot with 21 litres of wort in it is that just as good? If so, it just made my willingness to try a full boil a big leg up.
The issues with gladwrapping your kettle overnight are that some say it's not good to chill with the hotbreak still in there (hell, I've fermented with the hotbreak still in there!) and that you have to pitch within a few hours of it reaching room temp (I've gone to a maximum of about ten hours at room temp before pitching ... also, I've left the break/unpoured wort in the empty kettle by accident with the lid on and 3 days later it wasn't fermenting/infected yet, but that might be due to all the hop comppounds in the break material more than anything).

One pro with kettle chilling is that the entire thing is virtually sterile - a cube is not always.

I've never had an infection and I've kettle chilled hundreds of batches.
 

NewtownClown

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Palmer (and others I should say) also talk about the cold break, thermally shocking proteins out of the wort to avoid chill haze. But he goes on to say it's largely cosmetic, and I have to admit clear beer is not something that's ever worried me as much as taste.
So Palmer is your God and How to Brew is your bible. Fair enough, but do you own the latest edition or quoting from the 90's edition in the website you have in your signature?

Palmer also tell us to "proof" yeast with table sugar or wort when re-hydrating (in the online, outdated book), yet the manufacturers and current consensus tells us that is a big NO NO.
 

MaltyHops

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Cheers for adding it. Do you no chill in a cube?

So is anyone able to say that glad wrap over the pot overnight gives the same result as cubing? I figured the idea of cubing was to squeeze all the excess air out of the cube so as not to expose the wort to oxygen. If you put glad wrap over a 50 litre pot with 21 litres of wort in it is that just as good? If so, it just made my willingness to try a full boil a big leg up.
About that glad wrap...

http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic...f=2&t=10869
Ah yes, the ole use-atmospheric-pressure-and-boiling-water-to-crush-steel-drum trick.

One problem is the cooling wort is going to draw air in which could bring in airborne
bacteria/mould to your wort so maybe rig up an airlock that will let air come in
after being filtered by the water/sanitiser in the airlock (if you don't want to use
the standard cube nochill method).
 

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