French Saison 3711

[A3k]

Hi fellas,
Yesterday i made my first Saidon shown at the bottom of the post (based on brewing classic beers)
After NC, i just pitched the French Saison Yeast WY 3711 half an our ago at 20C.

I've searched this yeast, but couldn't find much on it. Does anyone have much experience with it and tell me a fermentation schedule i should be aiming for?
The yeast has a Temp Range of 18 - 25, and i've read this yeast moves pretty quick for a saison, around 9 days all up.

I'm thinking starting at 20, increasing to 25 over about a week then keeping at 25 until finished.

What's everyone's experience with this.
Cheers,
Al

4.76 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 80.81 %
0.34 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 5.77 %
0.34 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.77 %
64.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (60 min) Hops 23.3 IBU
22.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.45 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 SRM) Sugar 7.64 %
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast #3711) Yeast-Ale

The recipe is the same as Brewing Classic styles, but the yeast is French Saison not Belgian Saison, the hops are Hersbruker not Hallertauer and some malts are JW.

Cheers
Al

 

[marlow_coates]

Haven't used it myself, only the Belgian one, but I reckon your plan is pretty safe.

Starting at the lower end, and building to the higher end of the scale will ensure it keeps chugging along.
My only recommendation would be to wait untill activity just begins to subside before ramping the temp, as you don't want the beer to be too funky by ramping too early.

Let us know how it goes, the Belgian I did took so long to finish, and was such a nightmare, that I have avoided doing a saison since.

Marlow

 

[Effect]

I used it about a week or so ago...quite aggressive...finished within a few days...

 

[kook]

I've used this VSS strain in the past for a 2 beers. It doesn't need the babying of the dupont strain, happily chugs along at 20 and still throws off the typical fruit aromas. I'd let it do its thing rather than deliberately raising it, but you might get even more character at higher temps.

 

[Stuster]

I'd agree with kook. When I've used it, it's worked very quickly and doesn't need to be run too hot. I think it'll be fine to finish at 20C, but it probably won't hurt it to raise it towards the end either. I get really lemony esters from it and it attenuates amazingly, mostly around 95% attenuation.

 

[A3k]

Awesome news guys.
i didn't really feel like bothering with temperatures at the moment. it's around 20C in my laundary at the moment and i'd prefer not to bother with temperature control this week. I might put the heat pad on the side of the fermenter late in the ferment to raise it a little.
As i said, i've never made a Saison before, but i'm really looking forward it. Especially to the citrus flavours from the yeast.

Is this a beer to drink young or one that benifits from some conditioning?

I'll post my results when it's done.

Cheers,
Al

 

[bconnery]

Awesome news guys.
i didn't really feel like bothering with temperatures at the moment. it's around 20C in my laundary at the moment and i'd prefer not to bother with temperature control this week. I might put the heat pad on the side of the fermenter late in the ferment to raise it a little.
As i said, i've never made a Saison before, but i'm really looking forward it. Especially to the citrus flavours from the yeast.

Is this a beer to drink young or one that benifits from some conditioning?

I'll post my results when it's done.

Cheers,
Al

I made a saison with this last year and I just let it sit at ambient while I was away for a few days and it was fine. Would have started around 20 and raised up a little. I wouldn't worry too much about the heat belt probably.
This yeast chews like crazy. I think mine got down to 1004/5 from memory.

I put a starter amount, as in the amount I had saved to build up into a starter later in another beer to give an extra kick and it took over and chewed through that as well.

I think from memory the saison was nicer after a little conditioning in the keg, but it drank well enough that it didn't get a lot.
It isn't a style you have to drink young though.

 

[winkle]

I made a saison with this last year and I just let it sit at ambient while I was away for a few days and it was fine. Would have started around 20 and raised up a little. I wouldn't worry too much about the heat belt probably.
This yeast chews like crazy. I think mine got down to 1004/5 from memory.

I put a starter amount, as in the amount I had saved to build up into a starter later in another beer to give an extra kick and it took over and chewed through that as well.

I think from memory the saison was nicer after a little conditioning in the keg, but it drank well enough that it didn't get a lot.
It isn't a style you have to drink young though.

+1, very noticable improvement after one months conditioning.

 

[Quintrex]

I've used this VSS strain in the past for a 2 beers. It doesn't need the babying of the dupont strain, happily chugs along at 20 and still throws off the typical fruit aromas. I'd let it do its thing rather than deliberately raising it, but you might get even more character at higher temps.

I've used it once and stupidly didn't read the temp guidelines, i just assumed it would be similar to other saison strains i.e. fairly tolerant. It was all apple and pear(more pear than apple).

I'd like to try a good brew done with it, however for my buck I'm extremely happy with the saison strain and the farmhouse strain.

Let us know how you go.

Q

 

[A3k]

Well I pitched last night. I probably underpitched, as i used an activator with no starter, and put some in a test tube for later.

No action as of this morning, but now it's starting up and looking strong.

It'll be a while before i can drink this one as i'm going away at the end of the week, but i'll post my results in a few weeks.

Cheers, for the help.
Al

 

[A3k]

Well i never went away like i was meant to.

The beer (OG of 1060) got down to 1030 within a couple of days at 20C, but no action for a bit so i assumed it was slowing like some belgians do. So i slowly upped the temp to 20-23 and rocked the fermenter a little.
I checked it two days ago and it was down to 1008.
I just checked it 10 minutes ago and it's down to 1002. Can't say i've ever got a beer down that low.
If i knew that'd would happen, i would've dropped the suggar and had a 6.5%er instead of the 7.5 it's currently at.
I wonder how close it will go to the 1000 mark.

Flavours out of the warm sample are a little similar to a Hefeweizen but with belgian character. I'm really looking forward to trying this cold and carbonated.

Should i filter this one? BJCP says "Clarity is poor to good" and follows with "unfiltered farmhouse beer". It's bloody murky at the moment, and from what Wyeast say, i don't think the yeast will drop in a hurry.

Cheers,
Al

 

[kirem]

I am planning a BIG saison, recipe below, comments please?

I'll be purposely be underpitching at 18degC and once I see a drop in plato, I'll allow to go to 25degC

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 18.93 Wort Size (L): 18.93
Total Grain (kg): 6.00
Anticipated OG: 1.081 Plato: 19.48
Anticipated EBC: 12.6
Anticipated IBU: 47.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Extract EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
83.3 5.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 16.20 4
1.7 0.10 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 0.34 3
1.7 0.10 kg. Weyermann Caramunich I Germany 0.31 100
13.3 0.80 kg. IMC Munich Australia 2.63 12

Extract represented as Plato.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
25.00 g. Magnum Pellet 12.50 47.1 60 min.
10.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 4.80 0.0 0 min.
10.00 g. Fuggle Pellet 4.20 0.0 0 min.
10.00 g. Magnum Pellet 12.50 0.0 0 min.

I may add a smidge of Nelson sauvin at power off (0min) as well

Yeast
-----

WYeast 3711 French Saison


Water Profile
-------------

Profile: Mildura
Profile known for:

Calcium(Ca): 17.6 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 4.8 ppm
Sodium(Na): 24.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 22.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 36.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 33.0 ppm

pH: 8.28

 

[fraser_john]

Looks good Kirem, what about mash schedule? What is the rated attenuation of 3711?

 

[Stuster]

A3k, I'd say it'll be done at 1002. I just looked back at my records and that seems the magic gravity with that yeast as three batches stopped there (the others finished a bit higher).

My batches did drop clear eventually. I've never filtered so I certainly won't say not to do that, but time will also work.

Kirem, looks like a tasty drop to me, though I'm not sure about the Magnum at 0. Have you used it then?

I used this yeast on a 1094 dark strong and it finished at 1007.

 

[kirem]

Kirem, looks like a tasty drop to me, though I'm not sure about the Magnum at 0. Have you used it then?

it is spicy, but I have decided to change to Czech saaz and add a sniff of NS


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
25.00 g. Magnum Pellet 12.50 47.1 60 min.
10.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 4.80 0.0 0 min.
10.00 g. Fuggle Pellet 4.20 0.0 0 min.
10.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 4.00 0.0 0 min.
5.00 g. Nelson Sauvin Whole 11.90 0.0 0 min.

 

[kabooby]

I don't filter my saisons. Just doesn't feel right for a farmhouse ale. Saying that I don't filter any of my beers

I have had all of my beers with that yeast finnish @ 1002. Thats why I generally dont have an OG higher than 1050. I prefer them to be highly drinkable.

Kabooby

 

[A3k]

What is the rated attenuation of 3711?

I'm pretty sure it's rated at 77-83% LINK
Mine was about 97% apparent which from what I've heard is actually rather standard.

A3k, I'd say it'll be done at 1002. I just looked back at my records and that seems the magic gravity with that yeast as three batches stopped there (the others finished a bit higher).

My batches did drop clear eventually. I've never filtered so I certainly won't say not to do that, but time will also work.

I don't filter my saisons. Just doesn't feel right for a farmhouse ale. Saying that I don't filter any of my beers

I have had all of my beers with that yeast finnish @ 1002. Thats why I generally dont have an OG higher than 1050. I prefer them to be highly drinkable.

Kabooby

I'm undecided on filtering or not. i think my filter cartridge has a hole in it as i'm not getting the clarity i was. so maybe i'll filter it to remove some of the yeast.

Kabooby, i know what you're saying. i'm actually worried about having a 7.5% beer on tap that's probably going to be easy to knock back. i'm sure i'll wake up on the front lawn one morning.

Cheers
Al

 

[kabooby]

I do find this yeast has not floculated that well for me. I have used it about 4 or 5 times and it always leaves me with a slight haze.

As I said earlier I think it suits this style anyway.

Kabooby

 

[luckyeatwell]

A3k, Kabboby, Stu,

What sort of temps are you mashing at to get that sort of attenuation ?

Everyone seems to be talking up 90% + attenuation, so is everyone mashing @ around 63 Deg. C ?

I'm planning on using this strain in a similar recipe to that of brewing classic styles, but thought I'd keep the OG down to 1035, which would still deliver a 4.5% beer for 90% + attenuation.

Does the low FG leave these beers tasing thin or does high carbonation help in this regard ?

Would a higher OG and high mash temp (resulting in the same 4.5% but higher FG) make for a more balanced beer ?

Lots of questions there. Any answers appreciated.

Cheers,

Lucky.

 

[kabooby]

Hey Lucky,

I have mashed all of mine @67C and one @65C. They all finished arouund 1002-1004. The grain bill varied a bit.

My fav would have been this one that I made last summer. Conditioned for about 6 weeks and was the fav of all my mates (some girls) on the hot summer weekends.

40L batch mashed @65C OG 1044 FG 1002

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.50 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 100.00 %
45.00 gm Horizon [10.90 %] (60 min) Hops 31.9 IBU
30.00 gm Saaz [3.20 %] (15 min) Hops 3.1 IBU
45.00 gm Saaz [3.20 %] (0 min) Hops -
20.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) Yeast-Ale

The low FG does not leave the beer tasting thin. It suprising, but true.

Kabooby :icon_cheers: