Freezing Temperature Of Alcohol

[Tony]

i was reading up on bock and found this very very interesting transcript

Eisbock
A Doppelbock becomes an Eisbock in the lagering tank, if the temperature is dropped sufficiently to cause the water in the beer to freeze into a slush. Because alcohol freezes at a much lower temperature than water, it is possible to separate the liquid from the slush. This reduces the amount of water in the beer and thus raises the concentration of alcohol usually to about 10 to 12%. Because freezing takes out not only some of the water, but also most tannins (from grain husks) and bitter resins (from hops), Eisbock is particularly soft, smooth, and malty, almost like a malt candy. Eisbocks are best sipped slowly, by the fireside, as a desert beer, out of a cognac snifter.

In interested in trying this.

brew a doppelbock at about 7 or 8 %

take 10 liters of it and freeze it till i can run 6 or 7 liters off the ice water and bottle that.

what im wondering is what temp should i take it down to.

I have temp control and a freezer sitting here just asking to be used.

what temp does alcahol freeze at?

cheers

 

[craig maher]

what temp does alcahol freeze at?

cheers

Tony from memory - minus 110 to 120 degrees C :unsure:

Cheers,

Craig

 

[microbe]

95% ethanol (Everclear, if you like) freezes at about -110C, which is about -200F. Assuming a linear relationship we estimate that 40% ethanol freezes a bit below -40C = -40F. (Actually, 40% ethanol freezes at almost -30C according to the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics.)

from here

IIRC the alcohol isn't chemically separate from the water in {alcholic drink} the lower the alcohol % the higher (closer to zero) the freezing point will be

don't know if that helps or makes for more of a problem... :huh:

Edit: put quote in "quote"

 

[fw00r]

Melting point −114.3 C (158.8 K)

From Wikipediea

So spot on craigm, after factoring pressure changes

 

[Tony]

Ok...... so i dont have to worry about making it too cold..

All i have to do is freeze it and let it drain out till the ladt bits of water are left as ice.

too easy.

cheers

 

[chris.taylor.98]

Hmmm,

Not much on the web that I could find about the actual temperature to try.

This wiki article seems to give a bit of information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeze_distillation

Note it infers that the alcohol will actually freeze at a much higher temperature then pure ethanol, so I wouldn't be just putting it in the freezer and leaving to for a week.

Ever accidentally left a beer in the freezer overnight? I don't ever remember seeing much liquid left behind when doing this.

Let us know how it turns out Tony

Cheers

 

[tangent]

all you need to do is freeze the water, not the alcohol, but if you remove water it's distillation, and that's a no-no on AHB

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I reckon I'd be aiming for as high a temperature as would get the water frozen as possible so that it took a lot of time and the alcohol could 'fall out'... Not a very scientific description, but I figure that if you 'flash-froze' it you wouldn't get any separation of the good from the bad?

 

[Adamt]

OK this is the way I see it from a thermodynamics point of view:

When you bring the temperature down to freezing temperatures, the first bits to freeze will be pockets in the solution containing less alcohol than the bulk solution. The faster and lower you drop the temperature, the larger blocks of "ice" will form, however these larger blocks will contain a proportion of alcohol (however still much less than the bulk solution). The slower you drop the temperature, small crystals of ice will form (and turn to an ice slurry) of much lower alcohol concentration than the larger chunks formed if you froze quickly.

If I confused you like I confused myself; freezing lower and quicker will freeze more alcohol than freezing higher and slower.

Also to reiterate tangent, removing the ice is illegal.

 

[tangent]

...but effective

 

[matti]

The slower you drop the temperature, small crystals of ice will form (and turn to an ice slurry) of much lower alcohol concentration than the larger chunks formed if you froze quickly.

Just like making ice cream hehehe

Slow freezing is the go- How cold can you get your fridge?

I'd lower it to -2 or -3 then stick in the freezer and check every 3-4 hour

Not enough room in my freezer though.

Please report back any succesful attempts.

The icecream man

matti

 

[niceshoes]

OK this is the way I see it from a thermodynamics point of view:

When you bring the temperature down to freezing temperatures, the first bits to freeze will be pockets in the solution containing less alcohol than the bulk solution. The faster and lower you drop the temperature, the larger blocks of "ice" will form, however these larger blocks will contain a proportion of alcohol (however still much less than the bulk solution). The slower you drop the temperature, small crystals of ice will form (and turn to an ice slurry) of much lower alcohol concentration than the larger chunks formed if you froze quickly.

If I confused you like I confused myself; freezing lower and quicker will freeze more alcohol than freezing higher and slower.

Also to reiterate tangent, removing the ice is illegal.

Hi,

The ATO defines the distillation process as:

"The function of distillation is to separate, by vaporisation, a liquid mixture of miscible and volatile substances into individual components or, in some cases, into groups of components. The separation of a mixture of alcohol and water into its components....are examples of distillation."

I think the keyword is "vaporisation".

Under Part 1 Section 5 (iii) the Distillation Act 1901 states (in part):

"The wash is distilled in a still by heating to evaporation and condensing the vapor."

Judging by the current legislation freezing an alcohol/water mixture is not considered distillation.


Ian...

 

[Adamt]

The separation of a mixture of alcohol and water into its components....are examples of distillation."

This bit is probably where it is covered. Although I'm not sure exactly what's in the "....", essentially "eisbocking" is separating (mostly) water away from alcohol, so by this (abridged) definition it is an example of distillation.

This "eisbocking" process is also called "freeze distillation" outisde of the alcohol world.

 

[Jye]

I have been reading about freeze distillation the past couple of weeks since I plan I giving applejack a go h34r: Go with SpillsMostOfIt recommendation and freeze it slowly at about -2C, work out how much water you want to remove and then use some type of strainer to remove that amount of ice.

 

[tangent]

DrGonzo has done it. The resulting beer was surprisingly nice.

 

[Dr Gonzo]

Tony,

I managed to freeze a bock down from 25 litres to 18.
It happened very slowly over a couple of months at about -1 to -2.

There was a big block of muddy looking ice left wedged in the top of the cube.
I broke off a chunk and let it thaw out. Tasted very watery and harsh.

The resultant beer is very tasty though. Much stronger & darker than before.

 

[Kai]

Hi,

The ATO defines the distillation process as:

"The function of distillation is to separate, by vaporisation, a liquid mixture of miscible and volatile substances into individual components or, in some cases, into groups of components. The separation of a mixture of alcohol and water into its components....are examples of distillation."

I think the keyword is "vaporisation".

Under Part 1 Section 5 (iii) the Distillation Act 1901 states (in part):

"The wash is distilled in a still by heating to evaporation and condensing the vapor."

Judging by the current legislation freezing an alcohol/water mixture is not considered distillation.
Ian...

Beat me to it. Freezing to increase alcohol content is not illegal.

I've frozen a few cold-conditioning beers in past. I find the best way to do it is to put your thermostat at what you think the best temperature is, then lower it a little, then a little more, then a little more, then a little more, until you realise that a sample pint or two from the CC vessel is not only tasting marvellous but also knocking you for six.

 

[0M39A]

something also to keep in mind, if you are going to bottle carbonate the beer, is that freezing it isnt very good for the yeast, so you may have problems naturally carbonating it. may pay to repitch another yeast before bottling.

if youre kegging though, then there are no problems at all.

 

[Muggus]

Mmmm this thread has got me thinking.
I'm currently aging a Barley Wine of 12% in a fermenter, if I were to transfer some of which into another fermenter/vessel, freeze it, and remove the excess ice, would I have made an Eisbock'd Barley Wine?
And, more importantly, how would from there measure the strength of this brew?

 

[Kai]

If you have a refractometer, most good brewing software applications will approximate the ABV for you if you enter a current refractometer and hydrometer reading.