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I'm confused? I'm not sure if I am allowed to laugh at that or not.
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deeve007

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All I read here is whining from those that don't like change, or the way that change is being brought about. But the facts are that many minorities are still discriminated against, still do not have the same opportunties as many others, still face hostilities from both people and institutions, including governments. That's simply an objective fact.

So if you don't like the way that some are trying to improve the situation for those people, why not offer up some alternative solutions rather than simply complaining about those who are trying, as imperfect as some efforts might be? At least they're trying, what are you lot doing aside from complaining online in echo chambers? (and brewing beer ;) )
 
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Dave70

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So those being discriminated against, those in some instances facing real harm from how they're being treated or restricted, they just have to wait until those in power deem it's time to do something? That's been our problem for centuries, and you know what they say about repeating the same mistakes, and yet we continue to do so.



And they too will face a time it might be better to move aside for the next generation. There's a minimum age limit for running for office, why not a maximum age limit too, for differing but equally valid reasons?

Thats a great idea! Nothing says equality like throwing old people on the scrap heap and replacing them with young people, just cos like, they're old, you know?
Apparently, ageism occupies a breathtaking blind-spot in your worldview.
'The wisdom of teenagers' Said fcuking nobody, ever.

But hey, bellowing out virtue signalling tropes ad nauseam and all this hand-waving has become de rigueur nowadays, so that nothing new. Wouldn't want to be on the 'wrong side of history' eh?

What your hinting at is basically institutionalized discrimination. Wheres the evidence?
Carping 'old white people bad' doesn't make an argument.
 

deeve007

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Carping 'old white people bad' doesn't make an argument.

And ignoring the damage those in power not wanting to provide equality and equal opportunities for all even more so.
And as per every other comment in this thread, only "Nah I don't like that", with no alternative idea(s) of any kind. Same old same old.

So I guess we've reached the limit of what any online discourse can ever achieve = not much.
 
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YAPN

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Thats a great idea! Nothing says equality like throwing old people on the scrap heap and replacing them with young people, just cos like, they're old, you know?
Apparently, ageism occupies a breathtaking blind-spot in your worldview.
'The wisdom of teenagers' Said fcuking nobody, ever.

But hey, bellowing out virtue signalling tropes ad nauseam and all this hand-waving has become de rigueur nowadays, so that nothing new. Wouldn't want to be on the 'wrong side of history' eh?

What your hinting at is basically institutionalized discrimination. Wheres the evidence?
Carping 'old white people bad' doesn't make an argument.

I've seen this before on other sites. These people are not interested in reasonable conversation, probably just wanting to see his post go up.
Had to laugh when, after all he has written he starts a new post with...

"All I read here is whining"

No sense of irony.
 

deeve007

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I've seen this before on other sites. These people are not interested in reasonable conversation, probably just wanting to see his post go up.
Had to laugh when, after all he has written he starts a new post with...

"All I read here is whining"

No sense of irony.

And yet still no alternatives to what you're complaining about in 6 pages of this thread. Sorry you don't like someone with a differing viewpoint entering your echo chamber, I'd say many here better get used to it as the younger generation come through. Best of luck lads! :cool:
 

Feldon

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No one is complaining but you @deeve007. You've been shot down in flames more than once if you hadn't noticed. Embarrassing.
 

deeve007

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No one is complaining but you @deeve007. You've been shot down in flames more than once if you hadn't noticed. Embarrassing.

Lol. This whole thread had been about a bunch of old guys complaining about everything from "wokeness", to "cancel culture" - probably "me too" in there I'm sure - to having the Sydney Mardi Gras on TV because they don't like it (I just change the channel when I don't like something), with not one new idea or suggestion on how to address the issues those and other movements are in response to. Not a single one that I can recall, in 6 thread pages.

Ha ha, shot down in flames, what because I don't agree with everyone else on an online forum? Pfft.

But hey, think whatever helps you sleep better at night. 🤣
 
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Feldon

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You keep banging on about "6 thread pages". But you only joined in on page 4. You are either faking it up to get a reaction (troll posting) or a silly liar. Whatever, its pretty transparent.
 

deeve007

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You keep banging on about "6 thread pages". But you only joined in on page 4. You are either faking it up to get a reaction (troll posting) or a silly liar. Whatever, its pretty transparent.

Surprise, I have read through the 6 pages, it wasn't that hard... but I notice you can't disagree with my comments it's been all complaining with no new suggestions = most of the internet.

Anyway I'm sure ALL of us are tired of this back and forth, so I'll do everyone a favour. Best of luck lads, I think a few are going to need it going by the comments... the times, they are a'changing! 👍
 

YAPN

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You keep banging on about "6 thread pages". But you only joined in on page 4. You are either faking it up to get a reaction (troll posting) or a silly liar. Whatever, its pretty transparent.

For the last 24hrs he's been bangin' on about leaving this thread.
 

deeve007

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Hand up, I'll apologise for HOW I conveyed a few things, due in large part that some of this hits close to home personally. I'd just ask some here to consider the people behind whatever derogatory labels you want to throw at them, that while you take umbradge at a multi millionaire being taken to task about the potential damage caused by their comments, those kinds of comments cause very real damage to many within the maligned groups they're directed towards who don't have the same platform, damage that in too many cases results in loss of life. Just as there is nothing legally to stop me using the "n" word, I don't due to the recognised damage that has caused in the past, and can still cause now. We may not have the balance right in some cases, but for the most part (ignoring the extremists on all sides) it's not from any intended ill will, and a lot of positive has come even if you haven't seen this personally. We are still light years behind equality for all, and from those from many minority groups truly feeling like they are accepted by the community around them, and glacial change in some cases isn't enough.

I also try very hard (obviously failing sometimes 🤣 ) to avoid these conversations online for exactly what occured here. I have very good friends of mine in real life who I am not friends with on social media because they go over the top even with their friends with their views online, while in person we can discuss the exact same topic over a beer and have zero issues. I think the channel of discussion makes a HUGE difference in how comments are perceived, I'd hazard a guess that many of the comments I've read here that I think many outside this forum would view as overtly offensive, maybe come across worse due to the platform we're on. Something I need to be more mindful of myself.

Anyway, hope you'all have a good weekend, and we all come away from this with perhaps a little more enlightenment (even if an emphasis on "little" ;)).

I might be a grumpy old man but I have learned better than to get involved in political discussions on the www!
Something we can ALL agree on I think!
 
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Rule #1 Keep dick out of mincer
I might be a grumpy old man but I have learned better than to get involved in political discussions on the www!
Mark

I get into them all the time, post essays, get called names, but I avoid doing so on brewing forums except on rare occasions (as when I started the thread on Russki beer). It's not the place unless you do it with a light touch.

P.S. I may be grumpier than thou.

Dan
 
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Hand up, I'll apologise for HOW I conveyed a few things, due in large part that some of this hits close to home personally. I'd just ask some here to consider the people behind whatever derogatory labels you want to throw at them, that while you take umbradge at a multi millionaire being taken to task about the potential damage caused by their comments, those kinds of comments cause very real damage to many within the maligned groups they're directed towards who don't have the same platform, damage that in too many cases results in loss of life. Just as there is nothing legally to stop me using the "n" word, I don't due to the recognised damage that has caused in the past, and can still cause now. We may not have the balance right in some cases, but for the most part (ignoring the extremists on all sides) it's not from any intended ill will, and a lot of positive has come even if you haven't seen this personally. We are still light years behind equality for all, and from those from many minority groups truly feeling like they are accepted by the community around them, and glacial change in some cases isn't enough.

I also try very hard (obviously failing sometimes 🤣 ) to avoid these conversations online for exactly what occured here. I have very good friends of mine in real life who I am not friends with on social media because they go over the top even with their friends with their views online, while in person we can discuss the exact same topic over a beer and have zero issues. I think the channel of discussion makes a HUGE difference in how comments are perceived, I'd hazard a guess that many of the comments I've read here that I think many outside this forum would view as overtly offensive, maybe come across worse due to the platform we're on. Something I need to be more mindful of myself.

Anyway, hope you'all have a good weekend, and we all come away from this with perhaps a little more enlightenment (even if an emphasis on "little" ;)).


Something we can ALL agree on I think!
You too mate have a good weekend, discussion of hard topics is good. No one ever is going to agree on everything, but respect for each other and others opinions is a start. Everyone has had different life experiences
 

JDW81

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The left and the right are as guilty as one another at shouting down the other side and cancelling things (have a look at the madness in the US with what the conservative movement have banned to protect children - and it's not semiautomatic weapons). Seems like the internet/social media/trumpism/24 hour new cycle etc has killed our ability to have a rational and civilised debate.

I'm white, 40s and have had a pretty easy ride compared to a lot of the community (thats not to say I haven't worked my ass off to get where I am), and don't even start to understand what a lot of the minorities/different social groups have been through and how the current discourse affects them.

Change is something we can't do anything about, and for the most part it's a positive thing in my book.

JD
 

Half-baked

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Hand up, I'll apologise for HOW I conveyed a few things, due in large part that some of this hits close to home personally

Good on you for apologising deeve007, but also good on you for being passionate about making things better for people

One of the biggest challenges is how to bring everyone along on the journey of righting some of those historic wrongs… as I think someone mentioned above, pushing too far too fast risks make things worse (e.g. creating the conditions for Trump)
 
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Recently there has been controversy in regards to the greens actions with Australian flag not being behind them in some media conferences . I myself voted for them, and I agree with the 3 flags trifecta it's a good idea having the aboriginal and Islander flags there. But people voted for them because the nation needs real change like a federal ICAC with teeth, and I really hope that they can push some of there policies though.
But this gesture of not having the flag behind (it's off to the side) really Ike's me like you had a unprecedented voter swing so this is what you do alienate a lot of people (and damage your party's reputation). All this for such a small thing that amounts to nothing, it's like how major corporations have rainbow logos for one month of the year, what's the point other than virtue signalling.
Wokeness really needs to go and die in a hole somewhere.
 

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