Flavour Profiles In Stout

[Tony M]

Well, I just found out my Irish son-in-law and a couple of his siblings (with spouses) are lobbing on me this Christmas and as one who has never targeted beyond 5 Lovibond I must now bite the bullet and start making black beers.
I have trawled this forum (and others) and found that I could try anything from the Stout as described in Jayse's recent treatise, to others that include the entire contents of the local HBS plus a few confections from Mums pantry. As I am essentially a KISS proponent, I shall follow the Jayse dictum, but (at last we come to the question!) can somebody please give me the definitive difference in flavour profile with using roast barley as against dark malts?

 

[user 384]

The definitive answer is "It Depends"!

It depends on how much you use, it depends on which brand, it depends on a lot of things. So I would suggest you find a commercial example you like, and then reserach which roasted grains they use and try that first.

Sorry I couldn't be more elaborate.

Cheers
MAH

 

[Jovial_Monk]

I much prefer roast barley in a stout, and that is the recipe In Brew Classic European Beers

Mild Ale malt (use vienna) 3K
flaked barley 900g
roast barley 500g

45IBU from challenger and target hops

Jovial Monk

 

[jayse]

I also can't really elaborate to well. The best way is to find out for yourself.
Then in the same way you judge some commercial ones judge your brews.
I think a stout made to the guidelines and to be competive you would use mostly roast barley. But i don't think the best stouts use roast barley by itself.
For a extra dimension use JM's recipe but swap 200g of roast for choc or half and half black and choc.
That doen's help you much though thats just given you a recipe.
I see what you want to do is find the difference between the two.
Anyway check a thread here called oatmeal stout there is mine which uses mainly roast with added black and choc and quite a few others that don't use roast barley at all.
Just brew both types and be the judge yourself.
Personally I think the roasted malts have much better and complex flavour than roast barley. To name one nice flavour from black malt would be very nice coffee and 'yuppie' choc mixed with coffee flavour.
Iam not that great at discribing flavour all i can say is you'll have to judge yourself but i do like roasted malts better than roast barley because they are more complex and smooth.

Cheers Jayse

 

[RobW]

I made this one 10 days ago. Still in secondary but samples taste nice

3kg Pale malt
800gm Flaked Barley
500gm Brown malt
400gm Caraffa special III (use English roast Barley if you prefer)
150gm Chocolate malt
Goldings to 35 IBU

 

[GMK]

Tony M

Here is a quick way.
crack 100gms of each Roast Barley and black malt.
Now get three containers -
place 50gms of Roast in two, and 50 gms of black in two.
End up with 3 containers - one roast, one black & one raost with black.
Now pour in rainwater 100ml and steep for at least 1.5 hours.

Now sieve each into a glass - rinsing the sieve each time.
Then do a taste test - this will give you an idea or the flavours of each and and how they interact combine....

Note taht at this concentration the flavour will be pronounced - but you will most certainly get the idea.
You could also crack 100gms of Xtal and use another container.

If you try this - let me know how it went.

 

[Tony M]

Thanks for that idea GMK, I would never have considered it. It sounds like something I should do with every new grain I buy and then I'd have half an idea wot I wos doin........duh!
Your sampling procedure does not mention temperatures. Do I steep at 65C or just soak at room temp?

 

[GMK]

i would soak at room temp.
The 65c is more for mashing - and apart from the Xtal which can be either mashed or steeped - temp should not matter.

Let us know how you go - alternatively you can eat some of the grains to get an idea of the flavours.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Tony,
GMK's suggestion is worth doing - I have a mate in QLD who brews nothin but stouts and he put me onto this when I was formulating my Trough Lolly Porter recipe. Its a good headsup on what the grains are like - although its only a rough guide - the real flavour profile will jump out of the mash. Nonetheless, its fun to try - mind you, tasting the Carafa, to me, was a bit like drinking the dregs of a cigar filled ashtray!!

Go for it!
Cheers,
TL

 

[Tony M]

Taste test as requested GMK.
I crushed my 50gm. samples and soaked as instructed and came up with the following.
Black Malt. Was the more complex of the two with obvious flavours of coffee and chocolate and evident sweetness. My wife picked those flavours but identified the sweetness as caramel.
Roast Barley Reminded me of a weak unsweetened perked coffee to the extent that I thought that perhaps some of those more dubious coffee joints around the traps might use this to extend their brews. I could pick no other identifiable flavours apart from perhaps a dry bitterness, but this was not pronounced. It did bring back vague recollections of the taste of Guinness before they changed it about 15 years ago.
Another interesting difference was the mouthfeel. The malt felt quite fullbodied compared with the roast.
An interesting experiment. I shall make this standard practice with any new grain I buy.

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Be worth repeating that with choc malt alone and with black & roast barley

Jovial Monk

 

[GMK]

thanks Tony for posting the results...

Glad to have helped...