First Partial - Lizgarden Grand Cru

[angus_grant]

Well brewed my first partial today as a first move up from extracts.

Recipe:
3kg light malt extract
1kg honey
35g coriander seed
14g orange zest/peel

Hops:
Hallertauer: 60 mins
Hallertauer: 15 mins
Hallertauer: 5 mins

Man, those hops smell good.

Yeast:
12g packet Brew Cellar European Lager yeast (arse, wrong type of yeast. this was meant to be an ale)

Expected OG was 1.068 and I got 1.072, so close enough. Not quite sure where the extra points came from, but probably different potential in the honey to item listed in BeerSmith, or extract, or something along those lines.

I wonder about the hops bag I used as the water inside didn't seem to boil all the hard. When I pulled the bag out the hops had expanded quite a lot and most of it was down the bottom of the bag and I think was in the hard-boiling area.

I got a full container of coriander seeds but didn't actually read the weight and it was only 18 grams. I wanted 35 grams. I crushed it in a mortar and pestle and ended up with 21 grams, so a fair way short. Oh well, at the end of the day it should make beer. B)

This was my first time making a yeast starter and am wondering whether I buggered it up. I put the yeast in and then felt the bowl I was using, and temp felt way too hot. I sat the bowl in some cold water to drop temps down, and then added a teaspoon of sugar (I had already thrown all my extract into the boil ) with 30 mins left on the boil. No bubbling or activity and the glad-wrap I had over the top of the bowl did not expand at all so wondering about activity after 30 mins. I have another yeast packet I can add tomorrow morning if there doesn't appear to be any activity.

On the subject of yeast, I used a lager yeast instead of ale yeast so don't really think this will be a proper Hoegarden clone, but at the end of the day it should make beer. B)

So basically lots of doubts until I see that air-lock start bubbling, and then in about 10 days when I take the first specific gravity reading. The wort did smell very nice though... I could taste the honey quite nicely. :icon_drool2:

Thanks,
Angus.

P.S: not sure if this qualifies as there are a few conflicting description of partial-mash brewing. I figured adding in the adjuncts and hops qualifies it as a partial. Admins: feel free to move it to wherever..

P.P.S: I should note that I live in a townhouse block which is called Elizabeth Gardens, hence the brew name: Lizgarden Grand Cru. Once I nail the recipe it will probably be the house brew. I do enjoy the Hogarden. Bit pricy though.

 

[dth]

Yeah, technically not a partial at all. Nothing was mashed... Good go an at extract brew though, but some wheat extract and a nice Belgian wit yeast would probably have got you closer to where you want.

Still, it should still come out as a nice beer in the end if the ferment is treated nicely.

 

[angus_grant]

Fair enough, just a fancy extract brew then.

No activity in the air-lock yet so think I may have over-heated the yeasties while trying to do the starter. I'll check it later today for activity. Is there any problem with leaving the wort in the fermenter with no yeast until tomorrow morning? It's got an air-lock and sealed up tight. That way, I could grab the correct yeast tomorrow morning from LHBS.

If leaving it that long might cause problems, then I will pitch the other 15g packet of lager yeast that I have. Should I be fermenting at lager temps or can I still ferment at ale temps?

I have a Fridge-Mate temp controlled fermenting fridge so got it set at 19 degrees so I think the ferment side should be nice and controlled.

 

[manticle]

partial

It's a confusing term but if you think of an all grain brew as a 'full mash', then a beer that uses some base malt in a mash as a part of the total fermentables is a partial mash. Requires base grain to undergo starch conversion by mashing.

For hoegaarden type witbier, have a look at some of the liquid yeasts from wyeast which will give a better result than a lager yeast for that type of beer.

Particularly wyeast forbidden fruit in this instance: http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=54

Lager yeasts are often slower to show signs of fermentation. Did you take a gravity reading? Take another and see if it's dropped. Look for condensation on the lid. Look for any bubbles or foam on the surface. Airlock doesn't mean a lot.

What do you mean overheated the yeast?
How warm is the brew now?

2 packs of lager yeast can be a good thing if you are fermenting cool anyway (which you should be doing with that yeast)

 

[angus_grant]

Coolio, so some form of grains have to undergo mashing or steeping to be a partial?

I went into LHBS fully intending to buy a Belgian Wit beer yeast, and somehow left my brain outside and bought European Lager yeast.

The yeast starter I made was using boiling water which I left for 15 minutes (as per instructions I found somewhere on Internet). I then added the yeast. Another set of instructions said the water temp should be the same as target pitching temp for wort. The water felt a lot hotter than 22 degrees but I had already added the yeast so sat the bowl in cold water to drop the temp. I added a teaspoon of sugar and after 30 minuters no activity in the bowl.

So I will be purchasing a digital thermometer before the next batch so I can keep on top of temps..

Yeh, I usually use the air-lock as a guide to the fact something has started and that's about it. No condensation on the top, no bubbles on surface, no foaming, no visible activity, etc, etc. I did add the 2nd pack of yeast this morning straight to the fermentor around 8:30 so waiting for that to kick off. I'll take a gravity reading tomorrow morning. Original gravity was 1.072.

The brew is sitting at 19 degrees. I have a Fridgemate hooked up to the fridge with one degree variance. I pitched the yeast starter when wort was 22 degrees.

So by fermenting cool do you mean proper lager temps? Around 12 or 13 degrees?

That Wyeast yeast sounds like it would be a great combo with the recipe I am using. I'll use it for the next batch. I wonder whether this Euro yeast will cope with the 1.072 gravity.

 

[manticle]

Depending on how mych boiling water you used, there is a distinct possiblility that was too hot. Pitch the second packet anyway (high gravity + lager means a bigger pitching rate so you probably should have pitched both).

No real need to make a starter with dried yeast. Look up instructions for rehydrating yeast (which may have been what you were thinking of) which vary manufacturer to manufacturer. Otherwise just pitch dry, particularly if you have no means of checking temps..

Lager yeast should be fermented between about 7-13 degrees depending on which yeast it is and what they recommend.

Partial only refers to use of grain when it requires mashing - steeping grains is steeping grains. It's to do with the chemistry that occurs inside the grain -base grain contains enzymes that get activated at certain temperatures and convert the starches within to sugar. Steeping type grains do not and are simply soaked for flavour and colour.

Definitely buy a thermometer. You can get cheap, accurate glass stick thermometers from sponsors above - around $12-13 plus minimal postage.

 

[angus_grant]

The instructions I found said to use warm water and soak the yeast for 15 minutes and then add a teaspoon of malt extract or sugar and there should be activity in 30 mins. After about 45 mins there was still no activity in the bowl .

I added the second yeast this morning and had a look on the manufacturers website and they recommend 12-18 degrees for the yeast, so I've set the fridge for 12 degrees.

There is some condensation on the lid so I'll wait until the morning to see if there is any bubbling on the surface or evidence of fermentation before I start worrying.

Craft Brewer have a digital thermometer for $19 so I'll grab that with ingredients for a second attempt at this brew in a few weeks. I think I'll put through another kit beer seeing this brew will take a few weeks to ferment out and cold condition. I'd like to get one right before attempting another one and not getting either right.

Thanks for the help manticle. It shouldn't be as much of a worry as I have been doing kits for a while, but this is the first high gravity beer I have done and first extract brew and just wanting it to run through properly.

 

[mwd]

The instructions I found said to use warm water and soak the yeast for 15 minutes and then add a teaspoon of malt extract or sugar and there should be activity in 30 mins. After about 45 mins there was still no activity in the bowl .

I added the second yeast this morning and had a look on the manufacturers website and they recommend 12-18 degrees for the yeast, so I've set the fridge for 12 degrees.

Can take upto 48 hours before you see any obvious signs of a ferment going the cooler the wort the slower the yeast takes to get going and multiply. I doubt you will see activity after 45 minutes with any yeast no matter what.

 

[angus_grant]

Well no reassuring bloop this morning, but I took the lid off and there is about 6 cms krausen on top so things have finally kicked off. Has a nice honey-based smell to it, but not quite as strong an overall smell (can't really smell the oranges for example) as I thought it would be. Could be the missing 14g coriander seeds...

Oranges could be due to not being able to find dried orange skin so used fresh zest.

Now to wait two weeks for fermentation to finish. Will have to do a ferment in my kegerator as the keg in there (kit Saaz pilsenser) is about to blow dry. I'm tempted to make it again. Really nice beer and I will be trying out some Saaz-based extract beers in the future. :icon_drool2: Had one mate say it is the best home brew he has ever tasted, so wait until I start nailing some extract-based beers and move to BIAB in the future.

Thanks for all the help people.