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First Lager... Big Change In Taste?

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sean83

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Hi guys just a quick few questions. I have recently put down my first lager and the recipe is below.

4.000 Kg Aust Pils
0.500 Kg White Rice (boiled and added to mash)
0.500 Kg Carapils

Mashed at 65 - 68 degrees

Hop Schedule
20g Pride Of Ringwood 60min
10g Cluster 5min

I fermented for two week with two packets of Saflager S-23 at 12 degrees. Kegged it and has been sitting on gas in the fridge for two weeks. When I first tasted this beer when it was kegged and gassed it was very similar in taste and smell to Coopers Green, which was pretty good. But now two weeks later the Pride hops have really gone altogether. There is no real Aussie Aroma to the beer anymore and would almost say it has gone to fruity sweet taste. Not undrinkable but definelty not what i was hoping for and not as good as what it was before.

If I add some POR hops to the keg after steeping in some boiling water for 20 mins should this help it out?

Cheers in advance Sean
 

donburke

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Hi guys just a quick few questions. I have recently put down my first lager and the recipe is below.

4.000 Kg Aust Pils
0.500 Kg White Rice (boiled and added to mash)
0.500 Kg Carapils

Mashed at 65 - 68 degrees

Hop Schedule
20g Pride Of Ringwood 60min
10g Cluster 5min

I fermented for two week with two packets of Saflager S-23 at 12 degrees. Kegged it and has been sitting on gas in the fridge for two weeks. When I first tasted this beer when it was kegged and gassed it was very similar in taste and smell to Coopers Green, which was pretty good. But now two weeks later the Pride hops have really gone altogether. There is no real Aussie Aroma to the beer anymore and would almost say it has gone to fruity sweet taste. Not undrinkable but definelty not what i was hoping for and not as good as what it was before.

If I add some POR hops to the keg after steeping in some boiling water for 20 mins should this help it out?

Cheers in advance Sean
steeping hop wont add much, if any bitterness

the large amount of carapils, combined with the high mash temperature is the likely culprit of the residual sweetness

try get you hands on some isohop, it will help with the bittering
 

yum beer

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Hey sean, I am wondering if this was actually finished fermenting when you kegged it.

s-23 at 12c would be pushing to be finished in 2 weeks.

I wouldnt be putting POR into your keg, 20 minutes will give flavour which POR is not recommended for, you could give it a go with your cluster to kick up
the qld xxxx flavours.It may balance out the sweetness a bit as well.
Boil the hops not just a steep. 10 mins should be good.
 

sean83

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Hey sean, I am wondering if this was actually finished fermenting when you kegged it.

s-23 at 12c would be pushing to be finished in 2 weeks.

I wouldnt be putting POR into your keg, 20 minutes will give flavour which POR is not recommended for, you could give it a go with your cluster to kick up
the qld xxxx flavours.It may balance out the sweetness a bit as well.
Boil the hops not just a steep. 10 mins should be good.
Hey Yum, sorry mate I should have said cluster, pride is not what I really want, the xxxx flavours would be good as this is for a party of boys who dont drink hoppy ales.

Thanks Mate
 

yum beer

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I late hopped a coopers lager kit with 12 gm cluster boiled in 5 litres water for 10 minutes at day 5 ferment, came out very nice, relos and mates love it.

Reckon you can get a good result in the keg...*



*disclaimer----never kegged, could be totally wrong...i accept no responsibilty for results you may or may not achieve by following advice given on a forum frequented
by people who make and regularly indulge in varying amounts of home made beverages----
 

stixjew

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Hi there ive only done ten or so AG brews so far so i dont proclaim to know a great deal just yet or ever for that matter but just my 2c worth!. I try to mash a tad lower say around 64 to eliminate the sweeter flavours and strive for a dryer taste with the malt.As far as hops go my last (and first aussie lager beer) attempt i used cluster for bittering and aroma to around 18 to 20 IBU and it came out spot on with s189 and 4000 gms pilsner malt plus 200gms white sugar @ 12 deg for 2 weeks , polycar for clearing and no lagering crystal clear and easy on the palate after 2 weeks in the bottle.I used POR once in an ale for bittering only to 25 IBU and wont use it ever again it was quite "dirty" tasting with a real tangy aftertaste for my personal liking and got worse with age, hey but thats just me. Goodluck with your next brew hope it hits the spot. Cheers
 

iralosavic

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Hi there ive only done ten or so AG brews so far so i dont proclaim to know a great deal just yet or ever for that matter but just my 2c worth!. I try to mash a tad lower say around 64 to eliminate the sweeter flavours and strive for a dryer taste with the malt.As far as hops go my last (and first aussie lager beer) attempt i used cluster for bittering and aroma to around 18 to 20 IBU and it came out spot on with s189 and 4000 gms pilsner malt plus 200gms white sugar @ 12 deg for 2 weeks , polycar for clearing and no lagering crystal clear and easy on the palate after 2 weeks in the bottle.I used POR once in an ale for bittering only to 25 IBU and wont use it ever again it was quite "dirty" tasting with a real tangy aftertaste for my personal liking and got worse with age, hey but thats just me. Goodluck with your next brew hope it hits the spot. Cheers
You could even mash lower than 64 and use even more sugar if you were really wanting a true Aussie :p

When you used POR was it just a single 60 min addition? POR and Cluster work pretty well together in an Aussie lager. Try POR to 13-15 IBU @ 60 and Cluster to 18-20IBU @ 20 if you have POR left over...
 

manticle

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Hi guys just a quick few questions. I have recently put down my first lager and the recipe is below.

4.000 Kg Aust Pils
0.500 Kg White Rice (boiled and added to mash)
0.500 Kg Carapils

Mashed at 65 - 68 degrees

Hop Schedule
20g Pride Of Ringwood 60min
10g Cluster 5min

I fermented for two week with two packets of Saflager S-23 at 12 degrees. Kegged it and has been sitting on gas in the fridge for two weeks. When I first tasted this beer when it was kegged and gassed it was very similar in taste and smell to Coopers Green, which was pretty good. But now two weeks later the Pride hops have really gone altogether. There is no real Aussie Aroma to the beer anymore and would almost say it has gone to fruity sweet taste. Not undrinkable but definelty not what i was hoping for and not as good as what it was before.

If I add some POR hops to the keg after steeping in some boiling water for 20 mins should this help it out?

Cheers in advance Sean
It's been touched on but 65-68 is pretty vague and 65 will give a different result to 68. 500g carapils is also a lot to add to an aussie style that you want to be light and dry. If indeed you did mash at 68 and added 500g to a 20 ish L brew, I'd expect the resulting beer to be far more chewy than you would like.

Also not sure if two weeks with lager yeast and temps is going to be finished - I ferment everything out, then condition at ale ferment temps, then cold condition so most of my beers are 3-4 weeks before being bottled. You may be tasting unfinished beer or just byproducts like diacetyl and acetaldehyde than haven't had a chance to be reabsorbed by the yeast.

What was the FG and how long before kegging did it reach that gravity?

Is is slick in the mouth and does it taste a bit like buttered popcorn or a bit butterscotch like?
 

dr K

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Use some sugar, simple as that.
If your mates want a classic not so malty Aussie lager then that is the secret , its what CUB and LN do, not BTW to save money, it probably costs them more to use sugar as an adjunct than grain from an ingredient point, but if they all grain it would cost them a bucket as the average drinker wants that dry finish.
Do not fall for the bullshit about sugar giving an apple like character (acetaldehyde really) to your beer, its pooor quality yeast, poor extract with poor FAN levels and poor practice that does that, not sugar.

K
 

Bribie G

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As an additional comment, the Carapils was not excessive, at a lecture by Weyermann who were on tour, I attended about 18 months ago, the man said that Carapils can constitute around 30% of the grist without any problems - so not a cause of sweetness in your brew.
 

milob40

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not much you can do to save it.
for an aussie lager i would suggest using s189 and fermenting at 14-15 degrees.
gives a nice clean taste and no diacetyl to worry about.
ferment will be done in 2 weeks.
batz has listed a great easy aussie style lager here (been drinkin it today) and if you want you could bitter with cluster instead of por, just keep your ibu the same.
may be worth checking your thermometer as i had one that was 3 deg out so i was mashing way too high, also check you temp a minute or two after you turn off the heat as it will rise slightly.
 

Jazzafish

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I like to keep it pretty basic too. 100% Aussie malt or sometimes 95% and 5% sugar. Between 18 and 25IBU with POR. 34/70 or Swiss lager yeast works well if you like dry yeast. Great brew to build up a lager slurry though
 

sean83

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Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies.

Manticle I appreciate the feedback, I often read your posts and get some good advice from them. My mash temp was definetly higher than 65 degrees. I mashed in at 68 degrees and lost roughly 2.5 degrees over the hour, I don't insulate but it is a stainless pot rather than an esky so it obviously held temp more than I thought it would . After further reading and talking to other brewers I probably should have tried to mash closer to 65 or below.

My final Hydrometer reading was 1010 so was pretty confident it had finished, I guess with the higher temps it may have needed another week or two to ferment further and 1008 probably would have been a little better. I don't bottle but rather keg so put it in there carbed and forgot about it.

I wouldn't classify it as chewy so to speak, it isn't like a beer and steak all in one. And there definelty isnt any diaceytle butter flavours there I have had the unfortunate pleasure of purchasing beers before with this taste that didnt favour well.

I ended up doing a small boil of 15 grams cluster hops and 10 grams POR. It is a passable beer but probably not the best I have brewed. I have been drinking a few today and also comparing it to xxxx gold and coopers pale and it is probably caught somewhere in between. It is after all for the boys so I am not losing sleep over it. I have a Black IPA, Galaxy PA, and Simcoe and Galaxy Pale only bittered to 23IBU's to take to the party so I think I will be sorted for choice.

Appreciate all the advice and feedback - hope it sounds like I am on the right track but someone chime in if I am not.

Sean

I have also brewed a
 

sean83

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And Just quickly, Dr K I was going to use some dextrose to dry it out a little and bump up the alc% but couldn't be arsed in the end. I guess they will either like it or they can get there own drinks. BUt yeah I figured a little sugar for adjuncts would have been more authentic. Maybe next time I guess - not too big on the lagers though so could be awhile now.
 

manticle

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Pale malt, rice, PoR, and cluster to around 30 IBU in a single addition, mashed at 63-64 and fermented with lager yeast will give you what you seek. 50 -100g light or medium crystal per 20 L batch if you want a hint of colour and sweetness.
 

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