First Infection Grrrr!

[chappo1970]

Well I finally feed the lawn a brew. The brew was completely infected tasted like sucking on a bandaid soaked in metho. Blahhhgh! :icon_vomit:

It was my fault after the mini case swap I didn't clean out the ferment fridge which had had bits and pieces of food and stuff brought by those that attended. I cleared the fridge of food the next day but I should have pulled everything out and given it the once over. I was my damn silly lazy fault! :angry: Anyway whilst cleaning I noticed a lot of mould in crevaces and in behind shelving. Also smelled as musty as, yeah? I'm now going to make the frement fridge off bounds for anything but fermenters.

Anyway the fridge is all cleaned up and back in operation. For good measure I have also given the entire brewery the once over as well. Disinfectant, Bleach, PWB and starsan'ed everything and a thorough rinsing. Also mopped the floor twice just to make sure.

Gotta say I know how others have felt now when you've had to donate your pride and joy to the lawn! Gutted! Lost 42lts of beery goodness in total! Grrr! You put so much effort into formulating the recipe, ordering the grain bill, brewing and fermenting that due to shear laziness it seems such a total waste of effort. To add insult to injury I'm having a brew day with a few mates this weekend and have nothing to offer them in HB as the lager blew the night before and the LCBA is running low. Only leaves the XXXX clone. Oh well I guess lesson learned.

Anyway I hope this serve as a warning to others and might steer others away from using their ferment fridge for anything else than fermentation purposes, it just not worth it.

I suppose on the up side is get to brew like a demon for the next few weeks to replenish stocks!

Cheers

Chappo

 

[reviled]

Plz tell me this wasnt the IIPA?

I still fail to see how a bit of mould in the fridge would cause infected beer in a sealed fermenter?? I mean, sure its gonna increase your chances, but id still be looking at what happened prior to the fermenter getting into the fridge...

Infection doesnt allways mean infection as well, allthough if it tastes like bandaids it probably does? My first 'infection' turned out to actually be phenolic from stressing the **** out of a lager yeast, but that didnt stop me freaking out thinking everything was infected for weeks...

Youll probably start noticing the slightest hints of the same smell in other beers for ages, but dont worry cos its probably not really there lol

 

[jayse]

You haven't discribed the flavours of an normal beer infection here, bandaid is ussually associated with phenols which comes from fermentation and yeast alsoo metho sounds more like hot alc also ussually to do with fermentation and yeast.

 

[bum]

How do you guys know what bandaids taste like?

 

[raven19]

Did you pitch an active starter?

Was the wort chilled or no chilled?

If it is indeed an infection that is a darn shame!

 

[Bribie G]

I've had 3 infections so far and eventually traced one of them to a dirty urn tap, two of them to one particular fermenter which also happened to be the very first one I bought last May. So it's gone out with the recycling bin. If you can remember which fermenter you used for that brew then get a permanent marker and mark all your fermenters I II III etc. then keep an eagle eye on future brews.

I've bought two new fermenters in the last month and have increased my sanitizing routine from chlorine then rinse to chlorine soak for 4 days, four rinses out of the HWS, two rinses with boiling kettle water then a final rinse with starsan. Not to mention full sanitization of tap, O ring, grommet, airlock etc. Hopefully this will do it.

Another thing to look at is whether you used fresh yeast in that brew or recultured... Farming up some yeast can also present a window of opportunity for Nazi microorganisms.

 

[chappo1970]

Don't worry RevKnut the IIPA is safe thank god! I'm brewing that on Saturday. I know I cutting it fine but it will be all good.

It was definitely the fridge as it was the weak link in my last brews' cleaning and sanitizing regime. All the rest of the gear and brewery was spotless.

Jayse the metho taste is not alco hot taste but that bitter oily aftertaste of something like metho or fuel. Very chemical? There is also a very pungent vegital aroma with a foulish grainy smell. It's just totally foul top to bottom.


Cheers


Chappo

 

[chappo1970]

Did you pitch an active starter?

Was the wort chilled or no chilled?

If it is indeed an infection that is a darn shame!

Always pitch a starter and it was healthy

This batch was chilled and usually chill where I can and time permitting.

I'm not a happy man!

Cheers

Chappo

 

[eamonnfoley]

Jayse the metho taste is not alco hot taste but that bitter oily aftertaste of something like metho or fuel. Very chemical? There is also a very pungent vegital aroma with a foulish grainy smell. It's just totally foul top to bottom.


Cheers


Chappo

An obvious infection is very vinegary. Did you get that? Oily bitterness and a vegetal aroma might be something less obvious so I would check your brewpot ball valve, fermenter taps etc.

I've been fighting a similar problem and its cost me hundreds of litres.

 

[jayse]

The chemical would you say solvent like? that is hot fermentation ussually.
the pungent vegetal and foul character sounds like it couldbe an infection that would have been introduced and started going to work from the very beginning in the wort rather then the ussual type of beer spoilage infections which go to work after fermentation and produce acids. I have likened that type of early onset wort infection to really cheap and nasty canned chinese soup.

 

[chappo1970]

An obvious infection is very vinegary. Did you get that? Oily bitterness and a vegetal aroma might be something less obvious so I would check your brewpot ball valve, fermenter taps etc.

I've been fighting a similar problem and its cost me hundreds of litres.

I'm getting worried now!

Definitely no vinegar or that kind of harshness in there. I pulled the ball valves and stuff apart and cleaned them after the last brew and didn't notice any build ups or goopy stuff in them. I always pull the fermenter taps apart to clean them and IIRC these ones were new as I change them over every so often. But I will have a second check of them before the weekend as I can't afford to be brewing brews like this one. Hell it's almost enough to make me grab a Tooheys New. Thanks Foles.

Cheers

Chappo

 

[fraser_john]

Dunno, but if your fermenter was all sealed up tight and only blowing CO2 out, even if it was in a putrid fridge, it should still be OK. I'd suspect that the infection started in the fermenter or the starter, you may not have noticed the smell in the starter as it may have only been a small infection, just starting out, but once it got running, it was off like a shot.

I use steam for sterilizing my chiller and conical, nothing survives that.

John

 

[warrenlw63]

The Grainy Vege stuff makes me wonder if it's not DMS? If you get a big dose it can seem quite foul.

Warren -

 

[chappo1970]

The chemical would you say solvent like? that is hot fermentation ussually.
the pungent vegetal and foul character sounds like it couldbe an infection that would have been introduced and started going to work from the very beginning in the wort rather then the ussual type of beer spoilage infections which go to work after fermentation and produce acids. I have likened that type of early onset wort infection to really cheap and nasty canned chinese soup.

Definitely chemical/solvent like domestos aftertaste. The fermenters where in the fridge from go to whoa set at 18C and I pitched at 20C. So I'm not sure how it could have fermenter hot?

I'm convinced because of the state of the ferment fridge the infection got in before the yeast had a chance to dominate. I left the fermenters overnight unpitched in the fridge till the next morning so that's where I reckon it got infected. I usually try to cool the fermenters down more rapidly but AGAIN I got lazy and left them overnight.

Cheers

Chappo

 

[fraser_john]

I'm convinced because of the state of the ferment fridge the infection got in before the yeast had a chance to dominate. I left the fermenters overnight unpitched in the fridge till the next morning so that's where I reckon it got infected. I usually try to cool the fermenters down more rapidly but AGAIN I got lazy and left them overnight.

Big possibility then, fermenters usually suck air back through the airlock whilst they cool, nasty.

 

[crundle]

Given that the fermenters were left unpitched overnight in the fridge, that sounds like the cause if nothing else has changed in your brewing regimen. They are notorious for sucking back in as they cool down, sorry to hear that it went bad Chappo.

Reading this has me getting worried about my cleaning process now, but I no chill so I get to pitch into a fresh unpopulated wort (fingers crossed now for having written this!)

Now I have to scrub the fermenting fridge as pennance.....

Crundle

 

[jayse]

It does sound like wort spoilage bacteria, infections that would get in and get to work before the onset of fermentation. These would create cabbage, cellery parsnip and whatnot (Obesumbacterium, Aerobacter) plus the phenolics(Escherichia)to name a few.

 

[chappo1970]

It does sound like wort spoilage bacteria, infections that would get in and get to work before the onset of fermentation. These would create cabbage, cellery parsnip and whatnot (Obesumbacterium, Aerobacter) plus the phenolics(Escherichia)to name a few.

Jayse is there anything I should use or do to ensure I have killed these nasties?

Thanks for everyone help and comment BTW!

Chappo

 

[gibbocore]

Chappo, if you saw the inside of my fermentation fridge, you'd be horrified, i use glad wrap for an ale that only spending a few days in there but lagers i'll completely seal up and use a blow off tube and 2 l bottle of sanitiser. Not one infection (touch wood), i have however had to ditch a batch that i ruined somewhow with an buggered yeast, i started it from two longnecks that i had filled with the last runnings of a fermenter and had larger than normal sediment due to being the dregs from a keg fill, the yeast had taken off in a 1l starter and i thought all was fine, pitched and it fermented out real slow, and produced a **** load of phenolics and diacetyl, super slick on the tounge, almost greasy and bandaid like with acetyl flavours, it went down the drain. Cleaned up the fermenter and have been brewing in it problem free for a while now.

I agree with the others, i'd be looking elsewhere.

 

[jayse]

Jayse is there anything I should use or do to ensure I have killed these nasties?

Thanks for everyone help and comment BTW!

Chappo

They might even be dead already given the fact they don't survive in beer, they can only live in wort not beer. They are not a big deal to get rid and any normal cleaning routine will see you right.

For what its worth I ferment in a fridge containing alsort of food stuffs i just don't use a air lock and seal the lid real tight untill Co2 has started to be produced then crack it slightly for a few days then seal it back tight again even before ferment is completely finished.