First ever lager - Munich Dunkel

[btrots87]

So now that I have a good stockpile of beers I've decided to give my first ever lager a go. After my trip to Oktoberfest last year I've decided on a Munich Dunkel. I'm looking to get some nice raisin and toffee flavours without any harsh roasted flavour coming through. This is the recipe I've got so far:

ABV ~5.3%
OG ~1.048
IBU ~23

64.5% German Munich Light
26.9% German Pilsner
4.3% Special B
4.3% Carafa Special II

Mash Schedule

55C for 5 min
64C for 30 min
70C for 30 min
Mashout at 75C for 10 min

Hops

35g Hallertau Hersbrucker at 60 min
15g Hallertau Hersbrucker at 20 min

Yeast will be W-34/70 German lager dry yeast (2 packs) at about 10C.

Any hints for the recipe, mash schedule, fermentation schedule etc? I'm pretty new to all grain as well so I'm kind of flying blind here.

 

[Coodgee]

That's not a typical dunkel at all but would probably make a nice beer. I'd say go for it!

 

[btrots87]

Really? I've just been reading other peoples recipes and other than the Special B the ingredients seemed pretty standard. I added the Special B to try and get some raisin flavours.

What would you put in it?

 

[AJS2154]

btrots,

Jamil Zainasheff does a munich dunkel in his wonderful text "brewing classic styles". His view is that key to success is using very high percentages of munich malt. I can't speak on behalf of Coodgee, but suspect his comment is related to the 27% Pils in your recipe.

In Zainasheff's recipe he uses only 4.2% carafa special II and the balance munich. I won't post his recipe publicly, but if you were to PM me your email address I could scan it for you. I have used plenty of his recipes, always a great result....probably a book everybody should have in my opinion.

Regards, Anthony

 

[rude]

What about 50 50 Munich 1 & munich 11

 

[btrots87]

Thanks Anthony, funnily enough I have Brewing Classic Styles (great book) and until a couple of days ago my recipe was all Munich with a bit of the Carafa. After doing a bit of google research and reading a bunch of other recipes that included a bit of pils malt I decided to throw some in.

I've been having some issues with efficiency and a lot of people seemed to be including the pils to add some enzymes to ensure conversion. Maybe I should back it off a bit to about 10% pils.

 

[AJS2154]

btrots,

I am going to run up the flag and admit I don't know the answer to that question. I can see the rationale behind the addition of pils, not exactly sure if it is needed though.

Let's kick back with some popcorn and watch this one roll out in front of us.

Help please!

 

[btrots87]

btrots,

I am going to run up the flag and admit I don't know the answer to that question. I can see the rationale behind the addition of pils, not exactly sure if it is needed though.

Let's kick back with some popcorn and watch this one roll out in front of us.

Help please!

I've been reading a few more recipes and I'm thinking I may have been a bit heavy handed with the pils malt. I'm thinking of doing this now:

85% Munich I
8.5% Pils
2.1% Special B
4.3% Carafa II

I'm also a bit unsure about the mash schedule, a lot of recipes say that doing a decoction is essential for this type of beer but given that I'm pretty new to all grain I'd rather not go down that path just yet. I decided to do a step mash schedule but I'm not really sure if the temperatures and times I've picked will produce a beer with the right attenuation. I'm hoping for it to finish around 1.012 - 1.014.

 

[Coodgee]

I was taking about the special b. I just brewed a porter with some in it. It's very prominent. Raisin and maybe some sherry flavors. Don't let that stop you though. I am all for experimentation and trying new things.

 

[btrots87]

Yeah I hadn't seen anyone else using special B and I don't have any experience with it. I enjoyed drinking Lowenbrau Dunkel which I got some raisin and dried fruit notes from so that flavour is what I'm trying to emulate. Sounds like I'm on the right track if you're saying you getting raisins in your porter. I don't want it to overpower the beer though so do you think 2% will be an ok amount in this grain bill?

 

[Coodgee]

I'm no expert. First time I've used it and I'm tasting it out of the primary fermenter. But i used 0.8% or 50 grams. It's probably the combination of it and the other malts that are giving me the raisin (brown, Carafa, chocolate, Munich, black)

 

[manticle]

Caramunich will give you raisin and at least be German.
I'd consider all munich or mostly munich and a bit of vienna as the base. Pils is fine too but vienna/munich grist will help with some of what you get from decoction.

As for mash schedule - it depends on what you want to achieve but you could drop the low rest to about 62 and run it for only 10 minutes and get a full bodied, well attenuated beer.

Much more important than those however is yeast and fermentation schedule.
Good lager needs lots of yeast, oxygen, cold, time and patience.

 

[danestead]

Munich Dunkel. Excellent choice as its 1 of my favourite styles.

As for malt bill, ive seen a few different ways of doing it however my recipe uses about 47% munich, 47% pils, 5% caramunich and 1.5% choc and went very well in a comp a couple of years ago (42/50).

Give whatever you settle on a shot, im sure itll turn out excellent whether it is strictly munich dunkel to style or not

 

[evoo4u]

I bottled my first ever Munich Dunkel towards the end of January. Guided by Jamil's KISS recipe with 97% Munich I & 3% Carafa II, single temp mash at 68C, and around 22 IBUs Hallertauer.

I stepped up an S-23 (lager) yeast, gave the wort a dose of pure O2 before pitching, and after 12 days at 12C ended up with an FG of 1015.

I have nothing to compare it with, but for an easy-drinking darkish beer with a touch of residual sweetness, just beautiful!

There's a lot to be said for simplicity.

 

[kaiserben]

Got a batch I'm drinking now. It's great (possibly still improving under lagering conditions), but I'd give it a minor tweak.

83% Munich 1
9.3% CaraMunich 2
6.5% CaraAroma
1.2% Carafa Special 2

50.0 C for 30 min
62.0 C for 30 min
68.0 C for 30 min *
72.0 C for 20 min
77.0 C for 20 min
(* dunno why I put the 68C step in there, but otherwise this mimics the Dunkel recipe on the Weyermann site)

90 minute boil (hoping for added maillard reaction flavour)

@60 min 13g Magnum 17.7 IBU
@10 min 10g Tettnang 1.2 IBUs
@5 min Whirlfloc
@0 min 10g Tettnang Steep/Whirlpool for 10 mins. 0.6 IBUs

Yeast = WLP838 Southern German Lager (made a 2-step starter to make sure I was pitching above the required number of cells).

-------------------------------------------------


This turned out slightly darker than I wanted and more fruity/raisiny than I wanted, so next time I'll adjust the CaraMunich 2 right down (or even right out) and edge the Carafa down too.

I have read something about the whole Pils for enzymes thing. Decided against it. Can't recall why (it might be a yank thing because none of the Germans were doing it. Pils malt in a schwarz = yes, but pils malt in a Dunkel = no. At least IMO). I'm very happy with my results.

 

[btrots87]

Thanks for the responses everyone, it's all been taken on board. I think I'm going to stick with the small amount of pils malt and a little bit of special B for this one. It might not be traditional but it should still be a nice beer. Next time I might drop the pils and try caramunich instead of the special B and compare the difference.

Is the W-34/70 lager yeast a good choice of dry lager yeast for this beer? I'm planning on fermenting at 10C and then raising to about 18C for a diacetyl rest towards the end of fermentation. Then I'll drop to 4C and leave for a few weeks to lager.

 

[AJS2154]

If its not going to a competition to be judged, what does it need to be traditional for mate? Have a swing and see what happens. So long as you enjoy it, mission acomplished.

I feel like I was there at conception. Let us know how your bundle of joy goes, I am interested.

 

[btrots87]

Thanks mate, pretty much my thoughts as well. It doesn't have to be traditional, it just has to be good.

I just put in the order for the grain, I'll keep you posted as things progress, although I might not get a chance for a brew day for a few weeks.

 

[btrots87]

So I finally got a chance for a brew day and I put this down earlier today. I went with the recipe I posted in post 8, step mashed at 63C for 30 minutes then 70C for 45 minutes. Everything went well and I was pleasantly surprised to see my efficiency improved about 15% over my previous couple of brews.

It'll be a long few weeks wait but I'm hoping it will turn out nice.

 

[Adr_0]

It'll be a long few weeks wait but I'm hoping it will turn out nice.

It'll be a long few MONTHS wait...