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First Biab In The Bottle And Fg Very Low

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Beerisyummy

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Hi AHB's,

I'm not sure if this is a problem or not and I suppose that's my question.

Is going from 1.055 to 1.005 when beersmith predicts 1.010 a problem?


Cheers
Ross.
 

bum

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How confident are you that your hydrometer and thermometer are both reading true?
 

Beerisyummy

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How confident are you that your hydrometer and thermometer are both reading true?
Hydrometer was zeroed at 20c. Thermometer is one of several which all give similar results.

The room temp is slightly above 20c at the moment anyway.
 

yum beer

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What are the ingredients, thats a fairly low FG. Not infected?
 

twizt1d

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probably mashed lower than expected and nothing to worry about
 

Beerisyummy

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Thanks for the replies so far. I'll post the ingredients list and some more details tomorrow.
I get up at 5 most mornings so I can't spend much more time online tonight.

The beer tastes ok at bottling but just seems really strong. The yeast cake was huge compared to the normal K&K I'm used to.

Really happy with the AG taste already so keen to make things work.
 

Beerisyummy

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OK.


I think I had one to many testers last night while bottling three batches at once so please excuse my previous vague comments. I meant to post this in the beginers section also, so if you mods want to shift it I'll understand why.

Take two.
The recipe was meant to be a SN pale ale clone suggested to me as something a little more interesting by my LHBS.
I had some instructions on a photocopied page to follow and it went something like this:

Pale malt and crystal malt mixed up by LHBS as per recipe for a 10L batch.

Mash at 50c for 30mins and 65c for 60mins. I didn't really know what I was doing but I used a decent thermometer to take readings from the middle of the bag before taking each step off the heat and wrapping in towels.

The first thing I did was heat the water to 51-52c then in went the bag and grains. 50c checked with thermometer and the pot removed from the stovetop and wrapped in towels for the 30mins.

The temp didn't really drop. Maybe 0.5c although it was under three beach towels and on an insulated surface.

Return to stove top and fire up the gas. Around ten minutes later the bag was at 65.5c. Removed from stove and placed under towels again.

An hour later and the temp was 62c.

I then squeezed the shit out of the bag with carpenters hands ( which didn't burn too bad and made short work of the job).

Then I gave it a rolling boil for 90mins with various hop additions as per the instructions.

The 10L container had the contents poured in and was sealed up. Into the bath tub with some cold water and left to cool. The morning after I threw in a starter of US-05.

End of notes from brew day.

Now the recipe book suggested an OG of 1.057-1.059 and a FG of 1.014- 1.016. Running the figures through Beersmith2 gives the same advice.
The fermenter was in my garage for a 12 days at the 20-21c mark.

The first time I tried a sample the first thing that came to mind was a slight cough syrup taste which I looked up on my tasting guide. It seems to me that "Phenolic" is the best matching description.
Now I was a little worried at first until I tested the sample. It came in at 1.006 at 21c. I placed the rest of the sample in a cupboard and tested it a few days later at 1.005.
After tasting a glass of the chilled beer while bottling I was inclined to think that it was just really strong and that was why it tasted a little like cough syrup. A few calcs and it all made perfect sense, except for the really low gravity reading of course.


The temperature of the room which samples are left in before testing rarely changes by more than 1c during the day and was the usual 21c. The day of the brew would have seen higher temps in the kitchen due to all the boiling but I remember running that sample under the cool tap for a bit to compensate. Besides that I tested it again the next day and got the same thing at room temp and the finished beer has been tested more than once.

I hope this gives a little more useful information than my original post. It was totaly crap, I know. :rolleyes:
 

stux

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Sounds like you mashed too low for too long

Next time, try just a 66C 60-90 min mash, then raise temp to 78C over 7-10 minutes and pull the bag :)


If you find 66 gives you too drier a beer, try a hotter temp next time, or cooler (64C etc) if its too sweet
 

Nick JD

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I'd be seriously considering infection at 1.005 especially with the medicinal flavours.
 

Beerisyummy

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I'd be seriously considering infection at 1.005 especially with the medicinal flavours.
It's a pretty tasty infection then. :D .

In all seriousness I can think of a few points during the fermentation where an infection could have occured. How can someone tell if the beer is infected? What should I be looking, tasting or smelling for?

I've also been trying to go back through the method during fermentation and I think this batch might have suffered some higher temps due to the positioning of the FV. Is it possible that a high fermentation temperature could have this effect on the FG?

Thanks

Ross.

Edit: I'll chill one of the bottles and try it again with a clean palate. I'm still learning how to describe taste characteristics so bear with me.
 

Beerisyummy

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Sounds like you mashed too low for too long

Next time, try just a 66C 60-90 min mash, then raise temp to 78C over 7-10 minutes and pull the bag :)


If you find 66 gives you too drier a beer, try a hotter temp next time, or cooler (64C etc) if its too sweet
Maybe. It was my first crack at AG so it was more of a learning experience than an attempt to make a decent beer. I didn't have a clue how the whole proccess was going to work until I started doing it.

The recipe called for the mash temps used and it came out of one of Dave's (LHBS) books. To be quite honest the whole mash temp thing is duanting at the moment with all the different methods people use. I know they all essentially strive to get a similar result but for now I'm clueless.
A few more attempts, once I get a handle on my equipment, and I should be able to start getting my head around it.

Cheers

Ross.

Edit: I fogot to ask. How much of a difference will a low mash temperature have on yeast attenuation? Is it that big?
 

ianh

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Sounds like you mashed too low for too long

Next time, try just a 66C 60-90 min mash, then raise temp to 78C over 7-10 minutes and pull the bag :)


If you find 66 gives you too drier a beer, try a hotter temp next time, or cooler (64C etc) if its too sweet
Go with this advise.
 

iralosavic

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What yeast are you using? 1.005 from 1.055 is extremely highly attenuative, even if you mashed in the low end of the Beta Amalyse optimal temperature range. Depending on the attenuation of the yeast used, I wouldn't be too surprised if some wild yeast has assisted here. Sometimes wild yeast infections still yeild drinkable beers, but I don't know that I could drink one (from a psychological stand-point).
 

Beerisyummy

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What yeast are you using? 1.005 from 1.055 is extremely highly attenuative, even if you mashed in the low end of the Beta Amalyse optimal temperature range. Depending on the attenuation of the yeast used, I wouldn't be too surprised if some wild yeast has assisted here. Sometimes wild yeast infections still yeild drinkable beers, but I don't know that I could drink one (from a psychological stand-point).
It was a starter I made from a packet of US-05. After my first brew was in the fermenter I started playing around with yeast cultures and "cultivated" a fair few starters from different sources ( much to my wifes delight). The yeast is something that really caught my interest in all the articles I was reading.

It is possible that I have cultured up a mix of wild yeast and US-05 although from what I have read so far this is unlikely. I could be reading the wrong articles so I'll just keep reading and brewing until it all makes sense.

I tested the beer again today and the overall smell and taste is not that bad for a first crack at the AG bandwagon. There's a lot of room for improvement but it's definately on the right track.
I've never been a big fan of the SN Pale Ale in the past so maybe for my next brew i should try something with simple flavours that my palate is used to. Hopefully that will help highlight what's going wrong.
 

Beerisyummy

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How confident are you that your hydrometer and thermometer are both reading true?

I quick picture of the thermometer I've been using. Pretty good so far when checked against known temps. The hydrometer has been zeroed with RO/DI water but I haven't bothered making up a solution to test the higher gravities.


I've got a spare refratcometer lying around which is for salinity. Can I use this after noting the differences with known quantities? They Auto correct for temps with saltwater and I wouldn't even dream of using a hydrometer with my tank. Way to touchy with temperature differentials.

Cheers

Ross.
 

iralosavic

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I only ever rehydrate a single pack of US-05 - I have never created a starter first, so I can comment on how this would impact on attenuation, but I've never got it below 1.010, even with psuedo lagers that I've mashed really low. Could just be an outlying occurance though.

What equipment do you use to BIAB? Ie can you step mash?
 

Nick JD

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It's not a mash temperature situation. 91% attenuation using US05 ... nah.

75-78% would be what you'd see from a cool mash even if you pitched on a whole yeast cake.

This is a measurment error or a foreign microorganism.

If it's in bottles and tastes good ... drink it quickly! It could still be dropping (in the bottle). BOOM!
 

iralosavic

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It's not a mash temperature situation. 91% attenuation using US05 ... nah.

75-78% would be what you'd see from a cool mash even if you pitched on a whole yeast cake.

This is a measurment error or a foreign microorganism.
Not to blow your horn, Nick, but I tend to agree with you on this one.
 

fcmcg

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"It was a starter I made from a packet of US-05"
A packet of dry yeast has more than enough yeast cells.You don't need to make a starter with dry yeast.
"I've never been a big fan of the SN Pale Ale in the past so maybe for my next brew i should try something with simple flavours that my palate is used to. Hopefully that will help highlight what's going wrong."
Might i suggest having a look at the recipe dtatbase and doing Dr Smurto's golden ale....bloody easy and it is a lovely beer
This is of course all in my opinion !
Ferg
 

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