First Biab All Grain Brew - Problems

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eamonnfoley

Foleybraü
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Just finished my first all grain, BIAB. Tiring day in 38 degree heat, will wait for a cooler day next time I brew.

I brewed an american pale ale outdoors with my new equipment. Had the following dramas:

1) Accidentally mashed at 70-71C for the first 20 mins or so. Rest of the hour it dropped to about 68C. Will this ruin it? Too many dextrins?
2) broke my hydrometer while cleaning it - no OG reading.
3) Was planning for a 24L litre brew. Somehow only ended up with 19.5L in the fermenter. I have a brewpot with a hopscreen and pickup tube (from Beerbelly). A fair bit was stuck in the brewpot after with the sludge. Is it normal to lose that much? I also might have mismeasured my heights on the brewpot to estimate 27.5L (preboil). IT is a big pot -50L, 40cm diameter
4) I had my burner & pot elevated quite high on a stack of bricks, but still found it very hard to rack via gravity through my plate chiller to the fermenter. Had to fiddle with the chiller itself on different angles eventually having it rested on the top of the fermenter.
5) Worse still the wort was still pretty hot after one pass into the fermente. Off the scale for the stick on thermometer (40+C). It took 3 hours to get it below 30 in an ice/water bath in the laundry. I couldnt bring myself to take another run through the chiller given risk of infection and my problems getting it to rack with gravity.
6) My ball valve was leaking during the session, as well as my thermometer which is also screwed into the brewpot.

Anyway its in the fridge now set for 19C (Pitched at about 28-29C). See how it turns out, but I'm a bit frustrated with it all!

Any advice would be welcomed!

Foles.
 
Just finished my first all grain, BIAB. Tiring day in 38 degree heat, will wait for a cooler day next time I brew.

I brewed an american pale ale outdoors with my new equipment. Had the following dramas:

1) Accidentally mashed at 70-71C for the first 20 mins or so. Rest of the hour it dropped to about 68C. Will this ruin it? Too many dextrins?
2) broke my hydrometer while cleaning it - no OG reading.
3) Was planning for a 24L litre brew. Somehow only ended up with 19.5L in the fermenter. I have a brewpot with a hopscreen and pickup tube (from Beerbelly). A fair bit was stuck in the brewpot after with the sludge. Is it normal to lose that much? I also might have mismeasured my heights on the brewpot to estimate 27.5L (preboil). IT is a big pot -50L, 40cm diameter
4) I had my burner & pot elevated quite high on a stack of bricks, but still found it very hard to rack via gravity through my plate chiller to the fermenter. Had to fiddle with the chiller itself on different angles eventually having it rested on the top of the fermenter.
5) Worse still the wort was still pretty hot after one pass into the fermente. Off the scale for the stick on thermometer (40+C). It took 3 hours to get it below 30 in an ice/water bath in the laundry. I couldnt bring myself to take another run through the chiller given risk of infection and my problems getting it to rack with gravity.
6) My ball valve was leaking during the session, as well as my thermometer which is also screwed into the brewpot.

Anyway its in the fridge now set for 19C (Pitched at about 28-29C). See how it turns out, but I'm a bit frustrated with it all!

Any advice would be welcomed!

Foles.


Hey Foles,

I am only 14 BIABS in so maybe not as edumacted as others but this is my take:

1: How did you get that temp? A digital probe thermometer? Did you stir? Or? .. anyway no real biggy as far as producing a 'Better' beer is concerned!

2: Ooops... buy a new one - ASAP!

3: How did you run your calcs on that? 15% loss on an hour boil? thats rolling allow more for a violent boil....

4: Sorry don't use a chiller but i do use gravity here and there... same same!

5&6: BAd lovin....


:icon_drunk:

C
 
Sounds like just one of those bad brew days that happen some times.

I missed the temp on my last brew. I had the opposite excuse that you have. It was like 14C when I brewed and my bag froze to the extra pot I use to keep clean stuff in. That distracted me and while the water was at the correct temp when I reached for the bag by the time I got it unstuck, put it in the kettle, added the grains, and stirred them all in, the temp was way high like yours. I think I dropped mine faster but did not time it. I was able to check gravity and did a starch test. About to check final gravity but I think it will be a point or 2 higher then what was planned.

Can not comment on any of your other concerns as I have a different kettle and no fancy chiller.

Last I would just say you had bad luck and dont give up. You know what to expect and double check next time. Get a new hydrometer and some more grain and brew again. First fill that kettle up and fix the leaks. Then you can check the volume while you are at it. I have a big custom mash spoon and marked my volume on that. I brew with gallons so marked it at 5 and every gallon to 9.
 
1) Accidentally mashed at 70-71C for the first 20 mins or so. Rest of the hour it dropped to about 68C. Will this ruin it? Too many dextrins?
People's opinion's will vary, but I reckon it may not matter much for your brew. I find I need to mash at a degree or two higher than many to get any sort of body in my beers, but I've heard reports of the opposite. I'm currently aiming for a temp of 68-69 in my pale ales. I would not worry much - if it turns out too chunky, leave it in the bottle for a bit longer and see if it goes away. There is always the possibility that your thermometer reads high, anyway... ;)

2) broke my hydrometer while cleaning it - no OG reading.
3) Was planning for a 24L litre brew. Somehow only ended up with 19.5L in the fermenter. I have a brewpot with a hopscreen and pickup tube (from Beerbelly). A fair bit was stuck in the brewpot after with the sludge. Is it normal to lose that much? I also might have mismeasured my heights on the brewpot to estimate 27.5L (preboil). IT is a big pot -50L, 40cm diameter
Without a gravity reading, it gets hard to say, but you might find yourself with a real heavy brew because you boiled off too much, or you might just have a lower volume. Depending on your kettle geometry and burner setup, you may have boiled off lots more than you were expecting. In my system, I tend to boil off quite a bit more than you were expecting in your case. If you'd taken a reading as the boil was starting, we could wave our arms around and make some assertions, but...

4) I had my burner & pot elevated quite high on a stack of bricks, but still found it very hard to rack via gravity through my plate chiller to the fermenter. Had to fiddle with the chiller itself on different angles eventually having it rested on the top of the fermenter.
5) Worse still the wort was still pretty hot after one pass into the fermente. Off the scale for the stick on thermometer (40+C). It took 3 hours to get it below 30 in an ice/water bath in the laundry. I couldnt bring myself to take another run through the chiller given risk of infection and my problems getting it to rack with gravity.
*cough* No Chill *cough*. You have to balance the temperature and flow rate of wort through the chiller against the temperature and flow rate of the chilling water. If it is coming out of the chiller too hot, you need to back off the flow of wort going in. Start with the chilling water going full bash and the wort just at a trickle and slowly adjust either/both/neither until you're happy with the temperature coming out. Then, sit back and curse your crap plumbing... :D Whenever I watch a friend of mine brew with chillers and things, I learn new ways to cuss at inanimate objects...

I reckon we learn from our mistakes. I also reckon I am quite learned. :D As you brew more, it will become easier and more manageable and you will find solutions to all the problems that present. Apart from unsightly leakages, nothing you've described seems out of the ordinary for a first brew.

Get back on the horse and brew yourself silly and - I promise you - all the sorts of problems you've spoken of here will go away (and be replaced by new ones!).
 
3) Was planning for a 24L litre brew. Somehow only ended up with 19.5L in the fermenter. I have a brewpot with a hopscreen and pickup tube (from Beerbelly). A fair bit was stuck in the brewpot after with the sludge. Is it normal to lose that much? I also might have mismeasured my heights on the brewpot to estimate 27.5L (preboil). IT is a big pot -50L, 40cm diameter
Just for reference, I aim for 31L pre-boil to get 22L into the fermenter after boil off (~4L @ 13% for 60ish min), shrinkage (~1L @ 4%), losses to trub (~2L) and discrepancies in volume markings between kettle and fermenter. That's with a 30L urn with a Beerbelly hopscreen/pickup tube.
 
Hey Foles,

Don't get discouraged, they say problems are treasures (bloody sensei !!). There is always one of these problematic brews in the pipeline, if it's not the first it'll come to get you later when you get too cocky. In spite of the issues I'm sure the beer will still be the best you have ever brewed.

With regard to the hydro, I personally recommend getting a refractometer. It's one of those things that can simplify your brewday just that little bit and allows you to track the progress of your mash and make adjustments if required.

Like others here, I don't chill. This makes the brewday just about getting the mash and boil right and I can worry about the ferment later. Others may (and probably will) disagree, but for your first few brews it may be worth the investment of a no-chill cube (caveat: as long as you are confident in your sanitation regime) so you can get the rest of your process down pat.

As far as kettle losses go, don't try too hard to recover every drop. I aim for about 32lts pre-boil and end up at around 26/27 post boil.

The 38 deg day I am sure made everything seems worse and would not have helped with your mash-in overshoot and your chilling issues. Anyway, don't stress, just note your learnings for the next brew and enjoy the fruits of your labours in a few weeks.

Cheers :icon_cheers:

Soz
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll probably be brewing again after I bottle this batch. Might try the same beer again to see if it can be improved.

One more question - Are threads supposed to leak? The brewpot cost me a lot with the the 2 sockets and stuff welded in for the ball valve and probe dial thermometer. I've read somewhere that thread tape will fix that, but it doesnt seem normal to me.

Cheers,

Foles.
 
Hi Foles,
I'm onto my second BIAB and first time, like you I was struggling to get a decent post-boil volume, and ended up with only about 21 litres instead of 23 as planned.

In between brews I used my quite accurate 3L jug to fill the kettle (I use an Urn) to various levels that I have now marked on the urn, started this time with a 30 L boil and got 24 Litres this time which is fine as I'm not cubing and it ended up in the 30L fermenter at the same level as when I do kits and bits.

In order to get a reasonable pre boil quantity I did a smallish "mash out" with a couple of jugs of boiling water that I vigorously stirred into the BIAB mash to avoid flushing tannins, and that yielded a good quantity after I had hoisted and drained the bag.


I would suggest very accurately calibrating your kettle and also doing a mash out. Eventually you will be able to just look at the resulting level in the kettle and know that it's right, even though yesterday was my second BIAB everything seemed to come together better this time.

PS pity about the hydro, just give the brew the alcohol/brain test later :chug:
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll probably be brewing again after I bottle this batch. Might try the same beer again to see if it can be improved.

One more question - Are threads supposed to leak? The brewpot cost me a lot with the the 2 sockets and stuff welded in for the ball valve and probe dial thermometer. I've read somewhere that thread tape will fix that, but it doesnt seem normal to me.

Cheers,

Foles.

Yes, use teflon tape.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll probably be brewing again after I bottle this batch. Might try the same beer again to see if it can be improved.

One more question - Are threads supposed to leak? The brewpot cost me a lot with the the 2 sockets and stuff welded in for the ball valve and probe dial thermometer. I've read somewhere that thread tape will fix that, but it doesnt seem normal to me.

Cheers,

Foles.
Its all a learning curve, we have all been there before.Yes thread tape is your best freind :D Keep going you will get there real soon, why dont they make hydros from unbreakable carbonate ? Done a few in myself.
GB
 
Hey Foles,

I am only 14 BIABS in so maybe not as edumacted as others but this is my take:

1: How did you get that temp? A digital probe thermometer? Did you stir? Or? .. anyway no real biggy as far as producing a 'Better' beer is concerned!

analogue socket thermometer at bottom of brewpot.

2: Ooops... buy a new one - ASAP!



3: How did you run your calcs on that? 15% loss on an hour boil? thats rolling allow more for a violent boil....

I went 27.5L preboil. I've discovered I left about 4L of beer in the sludge on the bottom of the brewpot. My pot is 40cm in diameter and only a few cm adds up to a lot of beer! I think I may have been closish to the mark on the calcs, but didnt get it all into the fermenter.

4: Sorry don't use a chiller but i do use gravity here and there... same same!

5&6: BAd lovin....


:icon_drunk:

C
 
Your thermometer in a socket at the bottom of the vessel is going to give you some bunko readings unless you take precautions... the precautions being that you will have to stir the living hell out of your mash before it comes close to giving you an accurate picture of the "average" temp in your tun.

Fixed mash thermometers are for mash tuns where you don't want to stir so as to avoid disturbing the grain bed, otherwise they are pointless. IMHO fixed thermometers in a BIAB rig are a waste of time and money at the best, and likely to actually cause you issues at worst.

You must must must stir the mash thoroughly before taking a temperature reading (assuming you want it to be accurate that is) and if you are stirring with one hand, you might as well be holding a nice cheap digital thermometer with the other.

As for your volumes - you have to account for that X litres of sludge in the bottom... but remember, dont just add extra water. That sludge is finished wort. You have to up your entire batch size. So if you want to put 20 litres into your fermentor and you leave 4 litres behind in sludge... then you need to make a 24L batch

When I brew my goal is to fill a 19L corny keg - I lose about 1L to yeast sludge about 1L to wort shrinkage as it cools and 2.2 litres to kettle sludge. So when I am designing recipes, I design a recipe for 23.2L in order to get the final packages volume I want.

It will take a few brews for you to hit your volume numbers in any sort of a consistent way... you need to learn how your system behaves and build the details back into your recipe design process

TB
 
It sounds exactly like my first one too. It will get much easier with the next. Good luck with the next one.

Also teflon tape is needed on ALL threads.

I agree with TB about the fixed thermometer in BIAB. I had one and found it useless at best . I took it out in the end and plugged the hole. It kept getting the bag hooked on it and stopped me from stirring properly. Also I never once got a stable reading from it compared to another thermometer.

Hanzie
 

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