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First attempt at DSGA

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technobabble66

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Howdy,
Thought i'd try this AHB favourite to set a benchmark for my future experiments.

2 main questions:

1) What is a good replacement(s) for the Amarillo (as i don't have any)?

I currently have:

Hops Weight %AA
Pellets
Cascade 240g 5.6%
Centennial 110g 10.2%
Chinook 250g 13%
Citra 75g 11.9%
Citra 220g 14.1%
Columbus 460g 14.6%
EKG 80g 5.9%
Falconer's Flight 240g 11.4%
Nelson 110g ??%
Simcoe 515g 12.6%

Flowers
Galaxy 100g 11.1
Motueka 100g 7.9

What i was gonna use was:
Columbus, 10g at 60min & 10g at 0min
Simcoe , 10g @ 10min & 5min, 20g @ 0min, 25g dryhopped.
IBUs 25.5 (but i assume the 0min will add an extra ~5 IBUs)
I'm also No Chilling, but i'll do the 0min the following day with a few litres prior to filling the FV.

This combo was mainly because i have truckloads of columbus & simcoe.
Should this still be in balance, or should i use a different hopping schedule or different hops?

2)The grain bill will be the same as the award winning recipe, except i'm replacing the 2.4kg Ale with 2.4kg Maris Otter; and replacing the 0.25kg Caramalt with 0.2kg medium Crystal. Is this similar enough, or have i missed something?

Advice/help woud be greatly appreciated (esp by the good Dr) :D

Thanks!
Stu
 

drsmurto

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The 0 min addition will add 0 IBU. All of the recipes I have listed in the recipeDB and elsewhere on this site do not have immediate chilling at flameout. I wait 10-20 mins depending on late hop additions, time it takes me to set up the chiller, phase of the moon and how many beers I've had at this point.

Ignore no chill adjustments for now until you get your head around AG and the system you are brewing on. Preferably ignore no chill adjustment forever but at some point you may want to experiment with it yourself to see the results. You'll find there is no difference. You can thank me later by sending me beer.

Grain bill looks fine, I use MO or GP as the base malt.

Hopping schedule - use Simcoe for bittering and Motueka for late additions. This will give you a teaser on what you can expect from the Chinook rhizome you bought - I find the flavour much closer to Moteuka than US grown Chinook. Other than that, Columbus, Citra and Centennial as late additions are all ones I have brewed and enjoyed.
 

technobabble66

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Big thanks, Doc.

Tell you what, i'll definitely send you a beer from some homegrown chinook ;) but it might take a year or 2. Otherwise, if this works i'll look into sending you a sample!

The No Chill effect on bittering had me a bit confused, so your comments are definitely on the money. The previous batch i did (Palindrome Ale) went from 34 IBU on ianh's spreadsheet to 110 IBU once the "No Chill" effect was engaged. It had a slight bitter bite to it, maybe a fraction higher than 34 IBU (?), but definitely not 110! & i did put about 2g into the cube (10L) after my flameout addition (& strained into cube), so it could've just been that.
Reading MrMalty's piece on late hop additions, it was suggested that the 0 min could add bitterness, & the earlier additions could be replaced by (say) doubling or tripling the hop additions after flameout.
Then, there seems to be a wide variance of opinion on the AHB as to whether it adds any or not.
I like theory, but i'm a big fan of experience (i have none :unsure: ), so i'm happy to go with you & ignore it.

I assume after your flameout addition + 10-20 min wait, you separate the wort from the trub and leave the trub + spent hops behind? (hence no bittering effect?)

The Simcoe for bittering at 60min? I love Simcoe so far, but i'd read on AHB that early bittering additions can leave a cat piss taste, so i was delaying it a bit. Not what you've found? (& do you find Columbus provides a better late-addition flavour than using Simcoe in that role? & vice versa?)

The Motueka i've got are flowers. Should i only use that for flameout or dry hopping, or is it good for late boil additions also? & is there a weight adjustment to compensate for flowers rather than the pellets on the spreadsheet?

Apologies for the 20 million questions! - i really need to attend a brewing day at Grain&Grape!! :)
 

drsmurto

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Download a trial of beersmith and you can then download a copy of the beersmith file for my golden ale recipe. Once you open it you can make changes by replacing various ingredients.

Worth the investment in my opinion.
 

technobabble66

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Wow. Beersmith looks great, but i think it'll take days to get my head around all of it.
Just tried to customize my equipment (i'm about to get a 30L birko urn to BIAB in). I seemed to set it up correctly, & it's now telling me to mash 30.3L into my 30L urn. Grrr...
 

technobabble66

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Howdy,

I'm plugging away at trying to understand Beersmith & getting it appropriately customised to my equipment (namely a 30L birko).

I'm thinking of doing the 2 step Mash (24L @ 67°C & 76°C) then dropping it into a 2nd pot of 4L at 76°C water to do a quick sparge & extract more of the sugary goodness.

I notice the grain bill is slightly higher in Beersmith than the pdf's i've got. Is that to compensate for not sparging in this Beersmith recipe?
& would it be recommended to just up the grain a bit (as per this Beersmith version of DSGA) & skip the 2nd pot sparge thing i was intending?
 

technobabble66

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Currently brewing (finally!):

DSGA, Simcoe + Motueka

2.8kg MO
1kg Munich 1
1 kg Wheat
0.25kg Crystal, med
(slight differences to desired recipe due to slight shortfalls in stock)

Mash In: 24L @ 67°C for 75min
Step to 76°C, hold for 10min
Sparge bag with 1.5 L water (at 76°C) [just to see if this does anything, really]

Steep Crystal in 1.5L cold water for 30min, then raise to 70°C for 30min. Add to boil when ready.

Boil 90 min

10g Simcoe(P), 60min
12g Simcoe(P), 20min
20g Motueka(F), 20min
20g Motueka(F), 0min
20g Motueka(F), Dry

In theory:
OG: 1.060
FG: 1.013
IBU: 36.9
ECB: 18
 

technobabble66

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Done, into cubes. Phew!

meant to be 20-odd Litres, ended up being ~15L. WTF??
Obviously a bit more evaporation than expected, i guess.

Pre-boil measured Gravity = 1.052 (at 20°C)
Pre-boil volume 23.8L
So a boil of ~90min lost ~8L ... seems excessive!
(plus 1L of trub lost)

Subsequently, there was a bit of air left the 2nd 10L cube, even after some extreme squeezing. I'm planning on pitching tmrw morning, so hopefully it'll be OK.
I think i'll need to add a few litres of water tmrw to bring the Gravity down. I hvnt measured post-boil Gravity yet, but if i hvnt lost any sugars & haven't cocked-up my calc's, the calc'd gravity is about 1.074. Just a little high...

First new purchase: Ball valve tap + Silicone hose.
Today's lack of a hose might test the HSA theories...

2nd upcoming purchase: outlet filter.
3-4min into pouring the 1st cube, "wow, this urn + tap thing is awesome", suddenly tap blocks to a dribble. Looking at the 3/4's remaining wort, "Oh F#*%!."
Luckily found some wire to dig down into the outlet & loosened up the flowers/trub around it, then placed a strainer into the wort around the outlet. Actually seemed to work, but a bit too ghetto.
 

technobabble66

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Wow
Measured OG = 1.063
Final Fermenter volume = 16.5 L

Beersmith says theoretical OG = 1.060, but measured should be OG = 1.046

I assume i need to dilute this with 4-5L to get the OG i'm measuring down to something close to 1.046 then?

Any confirmation/correction of this noobish issue would definitely be appreciated (gotta go to work in 1hr) :unsure:
 

brad81

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I placed your OG into Beersmith - Dilution tool, and kept tinkering with the volume to add. Looks like 6L for you.

 

technobabble66

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Thanks Brad81 !!

I couldn't find the Dilution tool i'd heard about, so after that posting of yours i played around & discovered my window was too small & the tool icon is positioned of the far right, off from where i can normally view. Doh!!
I double-checked it just to see what u did. Yep, looks like about 6L (i started with 16.5L).

I've added 5L to get it to about 1.048 for 21.5L
It may be a slightly stronger than the original DSGA, but as it's for a swap, i'm assuming that'll go down well.

Thanks again - most appreciated at short notice! :D
 

brad81

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No worries, I noticed the .5 after I had taken the screenshot :)

In the process mashing an all Amarillo DSGA right at the moment too.
 

bum

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technobabble66 said:
2nd upcoming purchase: outlet filter.
3-4min into pouring the 1st cube, "wow, this urn + tap thing is awesome", suddenly tap blocks to a dribble. Looking at the 3/4's remaining wort, "Oh F#*%!."
Luckily found some wire to dig down into the outlet & loosened up the flowers/trub around it, then placed a strainer into the wort around the outlet. Actually seemed to work, but a bit too ghetto.
A whirlpool probably would have helped here.
 

CosmicBertie

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What was the reason for steeping the crystal? If you're full mashing, then put the the crystal in with all the other grain. A lot less messing about.

Also, the 90 min boil may account for the higher than expected boil off (i generally only boil for 60 mins).

Although after re-reading your account, you started with 24L, sparged with 1.5L and steeped with 1.5L, making a total water volume of 27L. With various deductions, grain absorption (~.95L per Kg x ~5Kg = ~5L), evaporation (~10% = 2.2L), and kettle loss (1L) means you'd have around 19L, then theres expansion due to heat....you could knock another 2L off there. All in, you get around your volume into the fermenter.

Generally, you want to be using about 33L of water all up for 23L into the fermenter (thats what my system uses). So maybe you need to sparge with more water.

With gravity readings, make sure that you're taking them with a cooled sample, otherwise you'd to adjust for temperature (beersmith may do this).
 

technobabble66

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Thanks CB,
Cosmic Bertie said:
What was the reason for steeping the crystal? If you're full mashing, then put the the crystal in with all the other grain. A lot less messing about.
I know DrS chucks his into the mash also (so it befits the recipe design), but i'm playing around with the idea that steeping the crystal separately adds a bit more malt character (according to some anecdotes). I still wonder if the mashing enzymes would slightly degrade the longer oligosaccharides & hence slightly decrease the full impact of the flavour & mouthfeel & head impact of the crystal. Is this crazy?

(And it's the least effort of my various stages currently, though the straining is a PITA. Eventually it'll be going into the mash at some stage. I currently spend the entire time faffing around with the process while brewing. I think once i get the hang of it & relax, i'll be more keen to go & sit down for an hr while mashing etc, & will see the separate steeping as a definite PITA.)



Cosmic Bertie said:
Also, the 90 min boil may account for the higher than expected boil off (i generally only boil for 60 mins).
True, but this was calc'd into the recipe design


Cosmic Bertie said:
Although after re-reading your account, you started with 24L, sparged with 1.5L and steeped with 1.5L, making a total water volume of 27L. With various deductions, grain absorption (~.95L per Kg x ~5Kg = ~5L), evaporation (~10% = 2.2L), and kettle loss (1L) means you'd have around 19L, then theres expansion due to heat....you could knock another 2L off there. All in, you get around your volume into the fermenter.
Yep, started w 27L total.
I thought grain absorption was ~0.5L per kg grain. Is this incorrect, or does it differ for certain grains etc? There's 2L right there if i've cocked that up.
Evaporation loss i'm still not really sure about - i just rely on Beersmith & ianh's spreadsheet.
Heat expansion i though would be circumvented, as i measured 27L of cold water into the process, & 16.5L of cold wort into the fermentor the next day (& the calcs within beersmith/spreadsheet should as per cold water, shouldn't it?). Is this correct?



Cosmic Bertie said:
Generally, you want to be using about 33L of water all up for 23L into the fermenter (thats what my system uses). So maybe you need to sparge with more water.
Would love to. But i've got a 30L Birko, so i've gotta be a little careful w volume. I'm hoping i can do as you've suggested & sparge with a larger volume; then gradually add the 2nd runnings to the urn as it evaporates down, but this was kind of a practice run to see how things worked out (such as evaporation rates! :unsure: ). 24L in the mash seemed a good volume to handle, so that's fine as is. Maybe boost the sparge to 6-9L & do a dunk sparge.
I have a 50L esky ($5 on eBay!) - is this waaay too big for that size dunk sparging??


Cosmic Bertie said:
With gravity readings, make sure that you're taking them with a cooled sample, otherwise you'd to adjust for temperature (beersmith may do this).
Tick - did this. I'd read some fellow-noobs getting some crazy readings at high temps, panicking, then when adjusted, where totally fine. So all reading done at 20°C. I'm slowly learning! :p

I'm currently looking at about 38% (let's say 40%) water loss in my current setup (90min mash, 90min boil)

Thanks again for your advice/feedback!
 

technobabble66

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manticle said:
1L per kilo, possibly closer to 1.1
Does vary a bit but 0.5 is too low.
oh poo.
I wonder where i got 0.5L from, then? Oh well, add that to the learning experience!

Actually, just realized that obviously would account for 2.5L, which gets my 16.5L up to 19L.
So, CB & manticle have probably covered all the differences in theoretical to measured volume right there.
Wow - so simple.
Thanks for sorting that out guys!
 

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