Fermenting Under Pressure

[mtb]

Does anyone know for sure what style coupler this will take?
Edit: Pretty sure its a Type S?

I know it's a Type S - because I know for sure it's not a type D. Had one of these Trenstar kegs a while back and my Ds didn't fit it.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I've read that article and it says over 2 atm pressure , so I'd say above 30 psi is bad.

I've always still pitched yeast starters or appropriate amount of dry yeast to style, oxygen added, and run the primary ferment in the middle of temp range of yeast with usual rises towards the end and carb up. Never tried higher temps as it's working for me so don't want to try and fix something that's not broke as they say.

One day if I could be arsed , I've got 3 kegmenters , should try a ghetto brulosphy xperiment lol and try diff temps. Na.

I run mine between 10-14 depending on how accurate my spunding valves are on the day.

Pressure rise at end to low 20s for carb up and it's when the yeast is 95% done it's job anyway.

Ales, stouts, reds are all great, just run mid ferment pressures under 1 ATM , and keep final pressures in check with the style, keep slightly under if unsure. But this method was obvious designed for lagers, but I do all my brewing now this way with great success , plus added benifits of full closed systems, and natural carb mouth feel, etc.

Plus it looks cool

All my beers, about 30 plus pressure ferments down now have gone great.

Yes, too high finish pressure can cause over carb, so can a lower pressure say 26 psi with a bigger volume headspace cause over carb on cc due to the volume of co2 compared to volume of liquid in the keg, It's done this for me on a few occasions in my early batches.

This is just my findings from batch to batch, but maybe some of the more technical guys here could add to this about pressures, temps, volumes etc etc..

So, keep in mind guys, till you get to know your systems , go slightly easier on the final end pressures especially if you have a bigger headspace in the keg and if under carbed , top up from gas bottle.
Easier than over carb beers.

I have my 3 kegmenters dialed in great now and every second batch or so, only needs a 30 psi squirt or 2 over 24 hrs to bring perfect. Some great from the start.

Cheers

There are other papers where they went down to .5 atm pressure which would be around 20 psi and the results weren't great
but I will be going ahead with my build with the intention of lagers for the kegmenter and at the moment thinking of for ales using a kegmenter as a secondary in to which I have diverted the co2 from the initial fermentation. I have also noticed that the commercial breweries redirect their captured co2 back into the bottom of the fermenter to keep the yeast roused when making lagers.
I think if it worked with ales the breweries would all be doing it, it stands to reason when production is held up by fermentation time, and it was interesting to see that the research carried out at Heriot and Watt University was financed by Courage.
I think that the 10 to 15 psi looks good but do you add any pressure before fermentation has started?
These are the pressure relief valves I have sent off for to make the spunding valves, supposedly accurate.

 

[bradsbrew]

Where did you source the PRV's from?

 

[Coldspace]

Yes, I add alittle pressure from start . Mainly to test for any leaks etc with starsan. Not upto normal ferment pressure as I like to watch it rise up to the hissing starts to let me know it's fired.

One thing I've noticed with these kk kegmenters , is if you cank the locking bracket up too tight they can leak alittle at the hinged area over 20 psi. Also don't use keg lub on the silicone skirt, you will get a better seal with it clean and just sprayed with weak starsan when you starsan the keg and attachments prior to fill.
I just hand tightned as hard as I can then do 1-2 more turns with a screw driver. That is heaps.
I've had carbed kegs that won't settle above 21-22 psi at final carb because of this. No biggy as I just top up gas at the end.

I prechill my cubes of wort to the pitch /primary ferment temp fill the kegmenter, oxy up, pitch yeast, seal up, then if it's a really full batch or aggressive yeast etc, I run blow off tube from gas out of kegmenter to liquid in of either my spare 9 ltr corney, or mini , then attach spunding valve onto the small keg. = no more blow through the spunding valve.
Once all attached up. I pressure up to 7-8 psi , and with spunding valve I pressurise a soft drink bottle with 15 psi and carb cap. ( read this tip on this forum) and tweak the valve to slight hiss, take off, de pressure the spunding valve by pressing the disconnect pin, then attach it to blow-off keg and it should read 7-8 psi and stay stable over night.

This shows me my closed system is sealed nicely , nothing happens usually for 18-24 hrs whilst the yeast breeds up, then bam, pressure up today ( couple nice lagers I mashed up last weekend)at a nice 14 psi, hissing nicely and any muck not going through the spunding. Usually 3 days later, I ditch the blow off setup and click spunding straight upto the kegmenter , and carry on from there.
Just too easy , and a marked quality improvement across all styles.

I agree, we are not scientists doing research , well some here are which is great, I originally bought one kegmenter for just learning lagers this way, but loved my odd ales through it I bought 2 more. I understand some literature says no good, this and that, but plenty out there say it's good.

One thing I know, is my brews both lagers and ales have all turned out great, and I'm glad I've gone down this path way, plus it's fun way.

Cheers

 

[Dave70]

I've read that article and it says over 2 atm pressure , so I'd say above 30 psi is bad.

I've always still pitched yeast starters or appropriate amount of dry yeast to style, oxygen added, and run the primary ferment in the middle of temp range of yeast with usual rises towards the end and carb up. Never tried higher temps as it's working for me so don't want to try and fix something that's not broke as they say.

One day if I could be arsed , I've got 3 kegmenters , should try a ghetto brulosphy xperiment lol and try diff temps. Na.

I run mine between 10-14 depending on how accurate my spunding valves are on the day.

Pressure rise at end to low 20s for carb up and it's when the yeast is 95% done it's job anyway.

Ales, stouts, reds are all great, just run mid ferment pressures under 1 ATM , and keep final pressures in check with the style, keep slightly under if unsure. But this method was obvious designed for lagers, but I do all my brewing now this way with great success , plus added benifits of full closed systems, and natural carb mouth feel, etc.

Plus it looks cool

All my beers, about 30 plus pressure ferments down now have gone great.

Yes, too high finish pressure can cause over carb, so can a lower pressure say 26 psi with a bigger volume headspace cause over carb on cc due to the volume of co2 compared to volume of liquid in the keg, It's done this for me on a few occasions in my early batches.

This is just my findings from batch to batch, but maybe some of the more technical guys here could add to this about pressures, temps, volumes etc etc..

So, keep in mind guys, till you get to know your systems , go slightly easier on the final end pressures especially if you have a bigger headspace in the keg and if under carbed , top up from gas bottle.
Easier than over carb beers.

I have my 3 kegmenters dialed in great now and every second batch or so, only needs a 30 psi squirt or 2 over 24 hrs to bring perfect. Some great from the start.

Cheers

To this end, anybody know if springs inside a dial pressure gauge are calibrated to measure in a linear rate, i.e. you can project the increments past the point where the gauge stops reading and sill get an accurate reading, or are the mechanisms progressively wound? The one I have on delivery only goes to 15 psi.

Let me make that even more tedious. If the big hand continued on for about another 60 degrees of rotation, would we be near enough to 20psi, or actually much higher? Or indeed, ruin the gauge?

 

[Fitzlp]

There are other papers where they went down to .5 atm pressure which would be around 20 psi and the results weren't great
but I will be going ahead with my build with the intention of lagers for the kegmenter and at the moment thinking of for ales using a kegmenter as a secondary in to which I have diverted the co2 from the initial fermentation. I have also noticed that the commercial breweries redirect their captured co2 back into the bottom of the fermenter to keep the yeast roused when making lagers.
I think if it worked with ales the breweries would all be doing it, it stands to reason when production is held up by fermentation time, and it was interesting to see that the research carried out at Heriot and Watt University was financed by Courage.
I think that the 10 to 15 psi looks good but do you add any pressure before fermentation has started?
These are the pressure relief valves I have sent off for to make the spunding valves, supposedly accurate.

fHey gziczLp sTisfaiDdxMorning iifigzcuh
CIs

 

[bradsbrew]

fHey gziczLp sTisfaiDdxMorning iifigzcuh
CIs

Totally agree Brother.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Where did you source the PRV's from?

E bay.

 

[Digga]

E bay.

Got a link? How much?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/0-100-P...re-Relief-Valve-Control-Devices-/291696721009
Just got to get a couple of decent gauges now.

 

[pirateagenda]

Pretty much. There are 30L commercial kegs for sale in Perth on gumtree for $30. Considering converting some to kegmenters by cutting off the commercial disconnect and replacing it with a 4" tri clover ferrule. Have to go and see some steel fabrication places and get a quote for the cutting/welding. Should be able to build a 30L kegmenter for under $100 worth of parts. The welding might cost a bit though.

even cheaper just cut a hole that fits a corny lid and put a couple of weldless gas and liquid posts in it.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Pretty much. There are 30L commercial kegs for sale in Perth on gumtree for $30. Considering converting some to kegmenters by cutting off the commercial disconnect and replacing it with a 4" tri clover ferrule. Have to go and see some steel fabrication places and get a quote for the cutting/welding. Should be able to build a 30L kegmenter for under $100 worth of parts. The welding might cost a bit though.

I was thinking along the lines of these 30 litre, 60 psi would be enough. Wouldn't it ?
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/cha...-drum-with-lid-camping-food-garden/1133741726

 

[Mardoo]

I was thinking along the lines of these 30 litre, 60 psi would be enough. Wouldn't it ?
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/cha...-drum-with-lid-camping-food-garden/1133741726

Awesome for grain storage! I think mine are 50L. Never occurred to me to try pressure fermenting in them. 60 psi is plenty.

 

[pirateagenda]

I was thinking along the lines of these 30 litre, 60 psi would be enough. Wouldn't it ?
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/cha...-drum-with-lid-camping-food-garden/1133741726

do they hold 60 psi?

thats a great cheap way to do it if they do.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I have been looking at all sorts of alternative kegmenters, I bought 2 heavy duty 25 litre cubes(should be 28 litre capacity when taking in the head space) about $9.00 each. Another option was the 20 litre back pack sprayers $30 each and then the barrels with the clip lock lid which on you tube a guy filled with compressed air and it blew at 65 psi.
I am looking for one around Melbourne and I will give it a go, Plastic Man $28 each heavy duty for the 30 litre so I will try it, every confidence it will work.

 

[Shadime]

Sorry if its already been asked but I bought one of these and want to know how much of the dip tube do I cut off to add this on the end.
Thanks in advance

 

[pirateagenda]

I have been looking at all sorts of alternative kegmenters, I bought 2 heavy duty 25 litre cubes(should be 28 litre capacity when taking in the head space) about $9.00 each. Another option was the 20 litre back pack sprayers $30 each and then the barrels with the clip lock lid which on you tube a guy filled with compressed air and it blew at 65 psi.
I am looking for one around Melbourne and I will give it a go, Plastic Man $28 each heavy duty for the 30 litre so I will try it, every confidence it will work.

before i knew about pressure fermenting i capped a fermenting cube a bit early. it puffed up like a balloon but never blew and must have been at the right pressure cause it was carbed enough to drink straight after kegging. so it should work for you!

 

[Dave70]

View attachment 110075

Sorry if its already been asked but I bought one of these and want to know how much of the dip tube do I cut off to add this on the end.
Thanks in advance

Just like mine. Word on the street seems to be about 20mm. But I think the cool kids are going with Fermentasuarsus type floating dip tubes. Clever bit of kit.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

before i knew about pressure fermenting i capped a fermenting cube a bit early. it puffed up like a balloon but never blew and must have been at the right pressure cause it was carbed enough to drink straight after kegging. so it should work for you!

I think the cube would work just a bit fiddly putting in the barbs or posts, in an earlier post the guy using a 15 or 10 litre cube said the pressure was 6 psi but I would say he had one of the cheap gauges.

 

[Shadime]

Just like mine. Word on the street seems to be about 20mm. But I think the cool kids are going with Fermentasuarsus type floating dip tubes. Clever bit of kit.

Thanks for the reply, Saw one of those once I had already ordered the filter. they look great, if the filter works well then I will be happy