Everyone Should Make This

[Neill]

yeah basically if you do the exact same hop boil in a 10L pot versus a 3L pot, you will get more bitterness extracted in the larger volume boil. quite a lot more actually, so the beer might be HEAPS more bitter than a smaller boil would produce. plug the numbers into ianh's spreadsheet and tick "HCF on" if you're doing a small boil. Ideally with this recipe you're looking for 30-35 IBU so adjust the boil times shorter if it's a bigger boil.

 

[enoch1973]

Hi there... Just been looking at this thread. I've been doing 4l boils for my recent extract brews.
I'm just curious though about the HCF. I had previouly paid no mind to it and left it at OFF.
When I change it to ON in Ian's spreadsheet it drops the IBU by 10 points in some cases.
To get the IBU up to what I'd like... around say 30, the sheet suggests it's wants a truck load more hops? Does that sound right?
You don't want to over bitter now do you... I mean in the case of a medium alpha hop say 7-8% you'd be putting in around 15 - 20 more grams...
I'm a bit hesitant to do that. What do you guys reckon? Anyone else do small volume boils all the time?
Pete

 

[theredone]

still dont know what im doing wrong in ianh's spreadsheet. i put in everything as the recipe requires, 5l boil, hcf on and it comes up at 26.6 ibu. thats assuming that cent are 9.7% which is what the ones brewcraft sell are

 

[Dazza_devil]

With the spreadsheet I would leave the HCF off even for boils as little as 5 litres. I was doing 7 litre boils and found my brews to be over bitter with it on so I upped the volume to 8 then 9 and left the HCF off. My brews were much more balanced with this method. As far as I can deduct your bitterness will also depend on your method of hop additions. We all have a way of doing things so my advise would be to leave the HCF off and try your result. If you prefer a more bitter brew try using more hops the next time. It's probably better have a beer that's under bitter than over bitter and work your way up from there. It wont take too many brews to find something that suits you. Just remember that bitterness rounds out over time in the bottle, so don't judge your results when they are young. Depending on the style you have brewed, in general I reckon 8 weeks is a good time frame to assess your bitterness etc. If something is too bitter for your tastes try it again in 2 or 3 months and see how it's changed.
Also, the bigger the boil volume the better. Investing in a 10 litre pot would be worthwhile in my opinion.

 

[glaab]

Hi there... Just been looking at this thread. I've been doing 4l boils for my recent extract brews.
I'm just curious though about the HCF. I had previouly paid no mind to it and left it at OFF.
When I change it to ON in Ian's spreadsheet it drops the IBU by 10 points in some cases.
To get the IBU up to what I'd like... around say 30, the sheet suggests it's wants a truck load more hops? Does that sound right?
You don't want to over bitter now do you... I mean in the case of a medium alpha hop say 7-8% you'd be putting in around 15 - 20 more grams...
I'm a bit hesitant to do that. What do you guys reckon? Anyone else do small volume boils all the time?
Pete

I always do 5l boils, it'sa waste of gas and too much stuffing around to chill a 25l boil doing extract.
Decrease the boil SG to increase the hops utilisation/ IBU's, for a 4l boil use 400g of DME.[the 500g dex is close enough] You can't be putting in the 3kg of LLME + the 500g dex for a 5l boil can you?

still dont know what im doing wrong in ianh's spreadsheet. i put in everything as the recipe requires, 5l boil, hcf on and it comes up at 26.6 ibu. thats assuming that cent are 9.7% which is what the ones brewcraft sell are

same issue, if youre' doing a 5l boil just boil the 5oog dex and add the cans to the fermenter.
Try the beersmith trial version and when you add the 3kg of goo check the "add after boil" box

 

[theredone]

I always do 5l boils, it'sa waste of gas and too much stuffing around to chill a 25l boil doing extract.
Decrease the boil SG to increase the hops utilisation/ IBU's, for a 4l boil use 400g of DME.[the 500g dex is close enough] You can't be putting in the 3kg of LLME + the 500g dex for a 5l boil can you?




same issue, if youre' doing a 5l boil just boil the 5oog dex and add the cans to the fermenter.
Try the beersmith trial version and when you add the 3kg of goo check the "add after boil" box

changing boil volume while hcf is off makes no diff at all. whith hcf on and changing boil volume to 10(even though i only do 4l boils) seems to look closer to what ibu's should be at(31)

 

[Dazza_devil]

The HCF is calculated for a 1.040 gravity boil.
As glaab suggests changing your boil gravity will alter your hop utilisation.

From IanH's advise, he doesn't use the HCF and does 10 litre boils.

 

[glaab]

changing boil volume while hcf is off makes no diff at all. whith hcf on and changing boil volume to 10(even though i only do 4l boils) seems to look closer to what ibu's should be at(31)

halving the DME/ sugar etc in the boil will do the same as doubling the boil vol

 

[bullfrog]

halving the DME/ sugar etc in the boil will do the same as doubling the boil vol

Is that true even if people were making sure their boil gravities were ~1.040, regardless of the boil size?

 

[jiesu]

I thought the hop utilisation factor was for massive brews not small brews?

Taking from beersmith equipment setup guide.

What about Hop Utilization?

The last field, Hops Utilization, represents an equipment specific hop utilization factor. It is used primarily by professional brewers who brew very large batches. Large size professional equipment achieves much higher hop utilization than small home brew setups.

For batches less than 20 gallons, the correct setting is "100%". Very large brewing setups (36+ barrels) may have settings of 300% or more, but this setting is both size and equipment dependent.

http://www.beersmith.com/equipment_setup.htm

 

[pokerpot]

I thought the hop utilisation factor was for massive brews not small brews?

Taking from beersmith equipment setup guide.



http://www.beersmith.com/equipment_setup.htm

Really want to try this brew but when I do a search for hops, I find the AA% to be in the 8-9.5% range for these hops. In your recipe you mention 6%.

Since I am really new, I was wondering what difference this makes and how to adjust for it. Thanks.

 

[glaab]

Is that true even if people were making sure their boil gravities were ~1.040, regardless of the boil size?

not sure I understand the question, but if you have 5 liter @ 1040 adding 5l more water your SG is 1020, if you leave it at 5l and remove half the DME it'll be 1020. making your extract in 5l @ 1040 or 10l @ 1040 or even 23l @ 1040 will give you the same result if you do the same hops additions.

If you made Niells recipe from post# 1 with a boil gravity of 1040, you'd end up with 50+IBU's but my Cent is 9.7%AA and my Amarillo is 8.7, Niell must've had lower AA% hops than mine. To reduce it to 33 IBU with the hops adds from page 1 you need a boil SG of about 1090, 500g dex + 600g LLME in 4l.
You could reduce the IBU's by reducing the additions or the times, but the 100g in the last 30 mins is what the recipe calls for.

 

[bullfrog]

not sure I understand the question, but if you have 5 liter @ 1040 adding 5l more water your SG is 1020, if you leave it at 5l and remove half the DME it'll be 1020. making your extract in 5l @ 1040 or 10l @ 1040 or even 23l @ 1040 will give you the same result if you do the same hops additions.

If you made Niells recipe from post# 1 with a boil gravity of 1040, you'd end up with 50+IBU's but my Cent is 9.7%AA and my Amarillo is 8.7, Niell must've had lower AA% hops than mine. To reduce it to 33 IBU with the hops adds from page 1 you need a boil SG of about 1090, 500g dex + 600g LLME in 4l.
You could reduce the IBU's by reducing the additions or the times, but the 100g in the last 30 mins is what the recipe calls for.

Right. My understanding of the debate at hand was that boil size can impact the hops utilisation when the gravity is kept constant. Ie, a 4L boil at 1.040 will result in a less bitter beer than a 10L boil at 1.040 with the exact same hops schedule. I thought that's why Ianh recommends people use the HCF on his spreadsheet when doing lower volume boils.

 

[the_yobbo]

Really want to try this brew but when I do a search for hops, I find the AA% to be in the 8-9.5% range for these hops. In your recipe you mention 6%.

Since I am really new, I was wondering what difference this makes and how to adjust for it. Thanks.

See previous post (#40) by BjornJ regarding how to adjust the quantity of the hops to match the recipe.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...st&p=514124

I hope this info is right, since I haven't done anything like this yet. I am going to attempt this recipe this weekend and hops from Craftbrewer are AA 8%-9.5%, so hopefully someone can confirm the above.

 

[the_yobbo]

Actually, it does raise a question, are the AA% used in this recipe really 6% or are they unknown/assumed/defaulted to be 6%. According to http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-3.html, the expected AA range for Centennial Hops is meant to be 9%-11.5%. 6% seems wrong?

If the recipe is based on 6% AA then as far as adjusting hop quantities to match AA% readings, I assume you'd only do that with the centennial hops since they are the bittering hops, and the amarillo more for flavour and aroma therefore shouldn't be adjusted. ?

 

[husky]

Actually, it does raise a question, are the AA% used in this recipe really 6% or are they unknown/assumed/defaulted to be 6%. According to http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-3.html, the expected AA range for Centennial Hops is meant to be 9%-11.5%. 6% seems wrong?

If the recipe is based on 6% AA then as far as adjusting hop quantities to match AA% readings, I assume you'd only do that with the centennial hops since they are the bittering hops, and the amarillo more for flavour and aroma therefore shouldn't be adjusted. ?

I believe the actual AA% is unknows so 6% was an estimate/guess.
I finally got around to putting this down last week and after putting in Ianh's spread sheet the IBU's came out around 50-60 from memory so I reduced the second addition from 20mins to 15 to slightly lower the IBU. Will let you know how it turns out.

 

[the_yobbo]

I believe the actual AA% is unknows so 6% was an estimate/guess.
I finally got around to putting this down last week and after putting in Ianh's spread sheet the IBU's came out around 50-60 from memory so I reduced the second addition from 20mins to 15 to slightly lower the IBU. Will let you know how it turns out.

Ah, of course. The magical speadsheet. That should be the answer to all extract/kit recipe questions.

 

[the_yobbo]

I believe the actual AA% is unknows so 6% was an estimate/guess.
I finally got around to putting this down last week and after putting in Ianh's spread sheet the IBU's came out around 50-60 from memory so I reduced the second addition from 20mins to 15 to slightly lower the IBU. Will let you know how it turns out.

Ah, of course. The magical speadsheet. That should be the answer to all extract/kit recipe questions.

 

[pokerpot]

Ah, of course. The magical speadsheet. That should be the answer to all extract/kit recipe questions.

Thanks for the help. I'm assuming most of the people here did this recipe to the letter and they say it came out great. The 6% 'guesstimate' doesn't seem any good to me considering that it falls out of the extreme range for the variety of hops. I think i'll stick with the recipe as written the first time out. We'll see how it turns out.

 

[shina]

Just kegged it and had a taste what a cracker this one is frigin great!!!!!!!!! :icon_chickcheers:

 

[Neill]

yeah sorry lads i'm not sure on the proper AA% on the hops i used originally - should really have written that down!

With regards to HCF, I believe that in such a small boil as i have been using (4L) and large hop additions (in our case 100g here) then it will under-utilise the hops and you will end up with less bitterness. I know i have done some larger boils with exact same recipe and they always come out more bitter than the smaller boils. Plug your details into the spreadsheet and aim for 30-60 IBU depending on what your tastebuds like :beer:

 

[ekul]

I made this a few days ago without reading the entire thread so i used the exact hops weights in the first post. It was actually my first extract brew and the wort smells and tastes better than any brew i've ever made so far! I think its going to be great, and it didn't even take much longer than a K&K. I think i will do extract brews from now on if this recipe tastes good.

I didn't realise that you are meant to have the hops in a hop bag so the pellets were boiled and are now in the fermenter. They are floating at the top so i hope it all turns out all right, i'm sure it will, probably just a bit more hoppy goodness. Still smells great.

Its taking a little longer to ferment though. Jumped from 1060 to 1020 in the first 2 days (18-20C, nottingham yeast) but another 2 days on it is still sitting at 1020. There's still bubbles on top (although it is kind hard to tell with all the hops!) so i think its just taking its time to finish the last morsels.

I'll let you all know how it tastes when its ready.

 

[Lobby Lobster]

I'm bottling this on Friday - only difference was I could only get us-05.

It's my first extract so I can't wait. Yeah ekul it sure does smell fantastic. I have spent many a minute with my nose over the airlock.

Good luck with yours.

 

[kelbygreen]

throwing all the hop pellets in doesnt matter it all settles out in the fermenter. I have only brewed this with us-05 and its still good. Got some notto to try but used on another brew

 

[ekul]

hasn't moved from 1020, does this mean its 'stalled'? I gave it a good swirl yday but that just made the bubbles disapear. I hope it works out as it has been the best smelling brew i've ever done. Freom reading on these forums it seems quite common for extract brews to stop at 1020...

I just tried to lift it out of my fridge and accidently dropped it back in (its got high sides, its pretty hard to get out/in when she's full), so if that doesn't get the yeast stirred up i don't know what will!! Fingers crossed!

 

[jzani]

Took my first gravity reading of this and had a first taste. Gravity only down to 1016, but it smells and tastes great.

Having trouble keeping the temp up to 20C down here in the South of New Zealand!

 

[kelbygreen]

Think my brew has stalled first time ever!! well not 100% sure as havnt taken a gravity reading. Put a brew down on friday and krausen in strong put on down saturday and no krausen I pitched 2 packs of coopers yeast (as running out of money so needed a cheap beer) one of the packs was from the kit (expiry some time in 2011) and the other yeast was bought from ross only a few days before

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

Finally getting around to doing this brew! Been VERY slack lately with the brewing. But with the rigging up of my fridgemate and after tasting a variety of beers lately I am looking to get right back into it and will have both fermenters full and fermenting by Friday!

Using the same hop schedule as your original except I upped the Centennial to 30g to get more bitternes from my 8L boil. I simply added carared and caramalt to the list.

Goes as follows:

22L Brew. Boil Size: 8L

3kg Coopers LME
200g Caramalt (BB)
200g Carared (Weyermann)
30g Centennial 9.2% (30min)
40g Amarillo 8.2% (20min)
40g Amarillo 8.2% (10min)
500g Dextrose
Nottingham yeasty

OG 1050 FG 1012
Est ABV 5%
25 IBU
16.3 EBC

Can't wait to get brewing this afternoon.

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

Just something interesting I noted.

I have been using the trial on Beersmith and now that I've used it a bit and understand it I entered this recipe above and got the figures above.

Now I enter the exact same recipe and specifics in ianh's spreadsheet and I get different numbers. I get a calculated IBU of 37.2 an EBC of 8.8. Also the ABV is +0.5% higher in the spreadsheet. Not knocking either the spreadsheet or BS, just trying to understand how the 2 can get such different numbers?

 

[Neill]

hop concentration factor. we covered this a few pages back i think - have a read!

i've re-done this a few times and it's been a bit hit-and-miss with the bitterness, i really think we should all be doing 10L boils for consistency's sake because my results have varied considerably. Another contributing factor is the time between flameout and topping up the fermenter with cool water. that wort stays over 80 degrees for a fair while if you take your time, maybe it's upping the bitterness?

edit: Ekul, try bumping the temp up to 22 or so for four or five days, it might kick start the ferment again. notto seems to like a bit more temp at the end of the ferment to finish it all off - a bit like US-05.

the extract brews do tend to finish a bit higher, most of mine that use this base recipe of fermentables end up at 1014-1018, it doesn't effect the flavour at all adversely.