esb recipe suggestions..

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carpedaym

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slash22000 said:
5.0% AV / OG 1.046
Worthy of note: If you crunch these two figures into a calculator, the FG comes out at 1.008
 

Adr_0

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Adr_0 said:
It's been quite a few years since I've had Fullers ESB and of course I haven't had Holgate/Hargreaves, so unless someone chimes in we really can't help with what you dislike about Fullers and like about Holgate/Hargreaves - but if I were to take a stab it might even be final gravity. The Fullers beers are in the 12-15 range, but I'm guessing that the Holgate is around 1.008 - so quite a bit drier (based on an OG of 1.046).

I would still hazard that a decent English ale yeast is used though, as - as a few of us have said - these beers are a magic mix of simple, easy recipes ultimately shaped by awesome yeasts.




slash22000 said:
What you've got there is an American Amber Ale.

You can't make an English Special Bitter without English hops. Well, I mean, obviously you can, but you couldn't call it an English Special Bitter, because it isn't. It's like saying that you're making a stout without any dark grains.

The Holgate website gives some details: "... it includes English crystal and roast malts, an abundance of East Kent Goldings hops and is enhanced through dry hopping with a touch of Aussie Galaxy."

5.0% AV / OG 1.046 / IBU 40 / EBC 20

Just trying a quick Brewmate recipe, it's going to be almost entirely base malt, with only small additions of specialty malts, for EBC 20. 92% Marris Otter, 6% Crystal 60 and 2% pale chocolate would get you ~20 EBC. I've never tried the beer myself so I'm not sure exactly how roasty/caramelly/etc it is, but EBC 20 is very limiting.

2g/L EKG at 60 minutes and 1.5g/L EKG at 20 minutes should get you around 40 IBU. 1g/L dry hop of Galaxy to follow.

Again, i've never tried this beer for myself, I'm just making assumptions based on the information given.
Indeed

carpedaym said:
Worthy of note: If you crunch these two figures into a calculator, the FG comes out at 1.008
Indeed
 

Mizz

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Thanks for all the suggestions guys, much appreciated.

I guess if It Holgate can get away with it so can I!

Willamette is just an American development of Fuggles anyhow, I just prefer it.

Does the use of lots of low AA hops (E.K. Goldings) for bittering have some big affect on the beer?
 

Mizz

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carpedaym said:
Worthy of note: If you crunch these two figures into a calculator, the FG comes out at 1.008
how does it get that low!
 

Adr_0

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Mizz said:
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, much appreciated.

I guess if It Holgate can get away with it so can I!

Willamette is just an American development of Fuggles anyhow, I just prefer it.

Does the use of lots of low AA hops (E.K. Goldings) for bittering have some big affect on the beer?
I'm a big Willamette fan too. EKG is low compared to some big AA NZ/Aus hops, but it's still 5-7%. If you dose up big-time on some of the really noble European hops in the 2-3% you can get a pungent grassiness that isn't that flash. I think you will be ok but I can understand if you're a bit tentative pushing 40-45IBU with only EKG, i.e. no Target/Challenger/Northdown to back it up. Again, haven't had the Holgate so don't know how 'forward' the hops are.

You can always knock the grams down a bit and boil for longer to get more value out of your gram additions, i.e. throw a 75min addition in?

Mizz said:
how does it get that low!
US-05 attenuates like a boss. I've had 84% before (53 down to 8) with a small volume brew and some sugars, but ~80% is quite common.
 

slash22000

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Adr_0 said:
If you dose up big-time on some of the really noble European hops in the 2-3% you can get a pungent grassiness that isn't that flash. I think you will be ok but I can understand if you're a bit tentative pushing 40-45IBU with only EKG, i.e. no Target/Challenger/Northdown to back it up.
High AA% hops are a new invention. People brewed exclusively with low AA% hops for 500 years.

Many English beers use a lot of low AA% bittering hops as opposed to a few high AA% hops because it tends to be smoother.
 

Adr_0

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slash22000 said:
High AA% hops are a new invention. People brewed exclusively with low AA% hops for 500 years.

Many English beers use a lot of low AA% bittering hops as opposed to a few high AA% hops because it tends to be smoother.
Yeah, absolutely fair call - I think I'm splitting hairs to be honest.
 

sp0rk

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slash22000 said:
You can't make an English Special Bitter without English hops. Well, I mean, obviously you can, but you couldn't call it an English Special Bitter
You wouldn't be calling it that anyway, ESB stands for Extra Special/Strong Bitter...
 

FyneBrews

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Okay. This is what I'm going to make. It's using the hops from the Hargreaves, the yeast from the Holgate and an english ESB style grain bill.. hopefully this all comes together to make something like I'm looking for.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Holgate/hargreaves ESB

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Extra Special/Strong Bitter (ESB)
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 25 liters (kettle volume)
Boil Size: 32 liters
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)
No Chill: 15 minute extended hop boil time

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.052
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 4.87%
IBU (rager): 37.83
SRM (morey): 14.73

FERMENTABLES:
5.5 kg - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (94%)
0.25 kg - United Kingdom - Crystal 60L (4.3%)
0.05 kg - United Kingdom - Chocolate (0.9%)
0.05 kg - United Kingdom - Roasted Barley (0.9%)

HOPS:
10 g - galaxy for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 14, IBU: 17.78)
10 g - galaxy for 15 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 14, IBU: 9.58)
10 g - galaxy for 5 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 14, IBU: 5.87)
10 g - galaxy for 0 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 14, IBU: 4.61)
40 g - galaxy for 6 days, Type: Pellet, Use: Dry Hop (AA 14)

MASH STEPS:
1) Sparge, Temp: 66 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 16 L

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 72%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 15 - 23.89 C
Fermentation Temp: 18 C
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)
Additional Yeast: two packets of yeast

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Balanced Profile
Ca2: 80
Mg2: 5
Na: 25
Cl: 75
SO4: 80
HCO3: 100
Okay. This is what I'm going to make. It's using the hops from the Hargreaves, the yeast from the Holgate and an english ESB style grain bill.. hopefully this all comes together to make something like I'm looking for.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Holgate/hargreaves ESB

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Extra Special/Strong Bitter (ESB)
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 25 liters (kettle volume)
Boil Size: 32 liters
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)
No Chill: 15 minute extended hop boil time

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.052
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 4.87%
IBU (rager): 37.83
SRM (morey): 14.73

FERMENTABLES:
5.5 kg - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (94%)
0.25 kg - United Kingdom - Crystal 60L (4.3%)
0.05 kg - United Kingdom - Chocolate (0.9%)
0.05 kg - United Kingdom - Roasted Barley (0.9%)

HOPS:
10 g - galaxy for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 14, IBU: 17.78)
10 g - galaxy for 15 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 14, IBU: 9.58)
10 g - galaxy for 5 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 14, IBU: 5.87)
10 g - galaxy for 0 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 14, IBU: 4.61)
40 g - galaxy for 6 days, Type: Pellet, Use: Dry Hop (AA 14)

MASH STEPS:
1) Sparge, Temp: 66 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 16 L

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 72%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 15 - 23.89 C
Fermentation Temp: 18 C
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)
Additional Yeast: two packets of yeast

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Balanced Profile
Ca2: 80
Mg2: 5
Na: 25
Cl: 75
SO4: 80
HCO3: 100
So... my daughter has requested something other than my usual IPA or NEIPA. I reckon a hargreaves ESB would be the ticket. I'm wondering how this particular recipe pulled up taste wise.
 

wide eyed and legless

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So... my daughter has requested something other than my usual IPA or NEIPA. I reckon a hargreaves ESB would be the ticket. I'm wondering how this particular recipe pulled up taste wise.
Holgate is a hard one to nail down, for me the best Aussie example of an ESB, maybe leave out the roast malt, the hops used are, for bittering either Super Pride or Ella, a late addition of EKG, shoot for an IBU Tinseth of 70. SRM would be around 13 or 14 so add the crystal, chocolate and roast (if you use it) as a late mash addition. I have been drinking one using Super pride, the taste is there but I don't think I have the colour.

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FyneBrews

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HHIPA - 1.jpeg


Tastes pretty good, let it warm a little first. Not sure it tastes anything like Hargreaves ESB but isn't too bad. Might add some Golden Syrup next time as David Heath suggests with his ESB.
 
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wide eyed and legless

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View attachment 122485

Tastes pretty good, let it warm a little first. Not sure it tastes anything like Hakers ESB but isn't too bad. Might add some Golden Syrup next time as David Heath suggests with his ESB.
Yes and do a 30 minute boil as David Heath suggests! The hardest thing to nail is the bitterness. I have always thought that I am being short changed on the bitterness. I recently read an article in BYO which suggests why.

I have tried this method and have been very happy with the results. Compare the two I am going to take a bottle to Brew Lab at Monash Uni and test the IBU.
By the way the boil should always be at 60 minutes minimum, there are no shortcuts in getting the best out of your brew day.
 

MHB

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Nice to be able to agree with WEAL, 60 minutes is a short boil!
My default is still 90 minutes, the flavour and colour that develops during the boil is part of the beer.
David Heath leavs a lot of why we boil beer longer out of his reasoning.
Mark
 

FyneBrews

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Yes and do a 30 minute boil as David Heath suggests! The hardest thing to nail is the bitterness. I have always thought that I am being short changed on the bitterness. I recently read an article in BYO which suggests why.

I have tried this method and have been very happy with the results. Compare the two I am going to take a bottle to Brew Lab at Monash Uni and test the IBU.
By the way the boil should always be at 60 minutes minimum, there are no shortcuts in getting the best out of your brew day.
David Heath: "Hops 60 min - Northdown - 8.2% (29 IBU) 10 min ......., 30 min boil?
 
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What you've got there is an American Amber Ale.

You can't make an English Special Bitter without English hops. Well, I mean, obviously you can, but you couldn't call it an English Special Bitter, because it isn't. It's like saying that you're making a stout without any dark grains.
I'd call the recipe innovative (good spin) or idiosyncratic (not so good spin), which does not rule out it being a good drop. As for American amber ales, they generally get most or all their colour from caramel malt.

Re hops: they only partly respect boundaries. Styrian Goldings comes from Slovenia. Willamette is or was formerly used in some English ales; and its aroma profile is a better fit there than in American ales. In the US it has been used in macrobrew lagers, imcluding Budweiser, but not in large quantities or in very late additions. Oddly, one of the first growers of Cascade reported that her first customers were English brewers who used it in small quantities as a dry hop.
 

FyneBrews

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I'd call the recipe innovative (good spin) or idiosyncratic (not so good spin), which does not rule out it being a good drop. As for American amber ales, they generally get most or all their colour from caramel malt.

Re hops: they only partly respect boundaries. Styrian Goldings comes from Slovenia. Willamette is or was formerly used in some English ales; and its aroma profile is a better fit there than in American ales. In the US it has been used in macrobrew lagers, imcluding Budweiser, but not in large quantities or in very late additions. Oddly, one of the first growers of Cascade reported that her first customers were English brewers who used it in small quantities as a dry hop.
Good call. I'll take this into consideration with the next iteration. Appreciate the feedback!
 

wide eyed and legless

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For what it's worth. Feel free to critique.
The hops used in a Holgate or Hargreaves are Super Pride or Ella, (if they can't get Super Pride) bittering hop. They use EKG as aroma. Not my last one but the one previous I took my IBU to 60 on the Tinseth scale and it wasn't quite as bitter as I was aiming for (using Ella). My last one was 75 IBU using Target hops which is too bitter comparing to Holgate's. So somewhere in between, maybe go to 65 IBU using Ella.
 

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