ESB recipe and BJCP styles advice

[MashPaddler]

I'm planning the following for Sunday and am wanting to start putting together brew recipes that could be good for competition - ie. conforming but different enough to stand out.

That said, I am always tweaking my recipes for flavour rather than conformity.

I haven't used challenger for more than a single addition, and never used motueka (B Saaz) before, so a couple of questions: i) is it likely to taste ok and ii) can I still call it an ESB with NZ hops?

I was thinking the orange from the challenger, the earthy and spicy from the challenger and the northern brewer and then the lemon from the moteuka would work together.

If not I could do drop the motueka and substitute for more challenger and run up the union jack.

5.4kg Marris Otter
200g Heritage
200g Crystal 120

Og 1.055
Fg 1.016
ABV 5.11%
IBU 45.5

Mash 65 for 70 minutes
Boil for 60

25g northern brewer @ 60
20g Challenger @ 20
20g Motueka @ 15
20g Challenger @ 10
20g Motueka @ 5
20g Challenger @ 0

London Ale yeast

 

[Muscovy_333]

I'm no authority on the matter, but my 2c if you are thinking comp beers would be to brew specifically to style.
A point of difference, in my opinion, may not serve you well.
However, a good understanding of a style, brewed to demonstrate your technical abillity (how well you can construct a beer and control your process...and cleanliness), will probably provide a better result.
I love to brew ESB's with 1469, but I have tasted ESB's brewed with London Ale that I would consider closer to style. Personally if you are thinking competition ESB, Id be sticking with noble hops (probably EKG) the right yeast and a focus on developing the attributes that are going to be judged.
A good judge will acknowlege your point of difference, but will score it to style...

 

[Midnight Brew]

Ive got a bitter fermenting currently and all the hopping is Northdown (UK). It has a real lemony aroma from it and B saaz having similar properties and being 1/3rd noble I say why not?

Sure its not going to be to style but how accurate is the BJCP style to the english guidelines anyway?

I'm yet to enter a comp so take my advice with a grain of salt but its gonna make an awesome beer regardless. I say go for it.

 

[manticle]

Hops in a good esb play with the malt to provide that citrus zest and dried fruit flavour you get in a good plum pudding (or after it's soaked in whisky before the pudding bit comes into it. You don't want it to taste super hopped up or even like 1 particular hop so much as citrus zing and dried fruot from malt in harmony.
Challenger is a great hop for this. B-saaz character is a hop I'm less familiar with so use your discretion to discern if it fits.

First thing that does well in a comp is a well made beer that has the right characeristics and none of the wrong ones.

 

[Tilt]

I've just brewed a variation on a fine NZ themed "bitter" - Emerson's Bookbinder - with EKG and Motueka.
An often repeated successful clone recipe http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/group/nzcaseswap/forum/topics/cs9-spellbinder uses Riwaka and NZ Goldings. In my version I like the interplay between the Goldings floral spiciness with the Motueka lemon/lime pepperiness.
However it isn't a classic "bitter" hop combo that Manticle describes above.
If I was brewing for competition rather than my own tastes then I'd stay very middle of the road and conservative.
That's probably why I don't brew that much for competitions

 

[MashPaddler]

Thanks for the advice and insights into competition brewing. It is clear.

I need to do 2 beers!

I'll keep it 'real' for one, use the motueka for the other, and just keep tweaking the traditional ESB to dial it into the guidelines as best I can. I have a few bags of homegrown EKG in the fridge so will give your recipe a go tilt.

Tilt, Midnight Brew, I have been the same to date, I love creating my own recipes and beers that suit my tastes, but I am increasingly drawn to the discipline of doing some beers in the style guide as I think it will make me a better brewer in the long run. And probably move me from biab to a three vessel system or a braumeister sooner rather than later (decoction mashes are a pain in the arse to get right with biab) but that's for another thread....

 

[Tilt]

Definitely a 2 beer situation you have there Mashy!
Keep in mind you'll need to step the recipe grist up to put it into ESB territory. Mine is a nice little sub 4% quaffer.
I get you on wanting to brew some competition beers. I enjoy the discipline of brewing to a style and being judged on it every now and then.
Its definitely useful to see if your recipe formulation and brewing processes are dialled in enough to brew to a style .... but I've gotta say the exploration and discovery of different flavour combinations is what especially sizzles my bacon with brewing nowadays.

 

[Tilt]

I forgot to mention - the other key element in the equation which Muscovy notes is the yeast.
I've had the Spellbinder recipe with s05, WLP 007, and WY 1275. The 1275 is pretty good as the crisper esters compliment the higher hopping, but I preferred the 007 version.
I reckon the fruity esters of a Fullers yeast (WY 1968) wouldn't work that well with the brighter hopping schedule.
They'd each be scrabbling for the top roost rather than spooning each other in a chilled out ESB love fest.

 

[petesbrew]

I have no technical or scientific knowledge to give you apart from the following, London Ale yeast is awesome. Marris Otter is awesome.
You're onto a good start there - dunno about the Motueka, I've always gone between Fuggles, EKG, Styrian Goldings & Target for my few ESB's.