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domix

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There was a quick segment on Triple J's Hack tonight about enzyme brewing.
Link: http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/hack/podcast/hack_daily.xml 13.7Mb - Thurs 28/06

Starts at the 23min17 mark.

I haven't heard of this method before, which is basically manufacturing the enzymes released through the malting process to allow brewers to 'mash' with un-malted barley.
 

///

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There was a quick segment on Triple J's Hack tonight about enzyme brewing.
Link: http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/hack/podcast/hack_daily.xml 13.7Mb - Thurs 28/06

Starts at the 23min17 mark.

I haven't heard of this method before, which is basically manufacturing the enzymes released through the malting process to allow brewers to 'mash' with un-malted barley.
Some breweries O/S still find this a cheaper method. Tooths in the 70's were renowned for raw barley and enzymes. The enzymes do what we usually do in the mash tun with malted barley. Just like sugars from starch (Manildra). Another way of doing things, no doubt Double J is scaring folks with the evils of chemistry ...

Scotty
 

kevin_smevin

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Some breweries O/S still find this a cheaper method. Tooths in the 70's were renowned for raw barley and enzymes. The enzymes do what we usually do in the mash tun with malted barley. Just like sugars from starch (Manildra). Another way of doing things, no doubt Double J is scaring folks with the evils of chemistry ...

Scotty
Why was it on Hack??
 

kelbygreen

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that would be good as it would make it cheaper. I find it funny how they say its for the YUPPIS! so they are saying it will cost them less and charge the consumer more. I guess it cant taste any worse then VB :p
 

keifer33

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Was an interesting listen on the way home from work but just made me think its more of a mega brewery thing and wont really filter down into micro/home brewing for the majority of styles as so much of the flavours come from the malted grain. Will definitely been keen to taste beers made this way but nothing like tradition.
 

punkin

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We use enzymes for ferments that have no malt in them in our other hobbies. It's big in the states where alpha/gluco amylase is available in brew shops in powdered form pretty cheap. Here it is more widely available as a liquid, and the ones i have are a high temp product (in the alpha).
Not real cheap, but you only need one ml to 10l of mash so a litre bottle lasts a looong time.

Mostly used for corn mash etc.


JustAnotherToolInTheBoxPunkin
 

Wolfy

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Was an interesting listen on the way home from work but just made me think its more of a mega brewery thing and wont really filter down into micro/home brewing for the majority of styles as so much of the flavours come from the malted grain. Will definitely been keen to taste beers made this way but nothing like tradition.
If it becomes a mega-brewery thing, it will filter down all the way - and likely 'we' will have very little say in it.
If mega-breweries change their process and can make the same beer, more cheaply with unmalted grains, I can't imagine that the malting-companies will survive on just the micro/home brewery market.
As a consequence they will close or be hugely consolidated, the range of available malted-grains will decrease and 'we' will be forced to change practices as well.
 

Thirsty Boy

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If it becomes a mega-brewery thing, it will filter down all the way - and likely 'we' will have very little say in it.
If mega-breweries change their process and can make the same beer, more cheaply with unmalted grains, I can't imagine that the malting-companies will survive on just the micro/home brewery market.
As a consequence they will close or be hugely consolidated, the range of available malted-grains will decrease and 'we' will be forced to change practices as well.
its already a mega brewery thing - its just not all that common in this particular part of the world. Go to africa, where resources are scarcer and barley at feed grade (pefectly acceptable if you are brewing with enzymes) is a lot more available than malt, and sorghum and millet is much more available than that, and you'll find plenty of breweries using high percentages and even 100% unmalted grains.

It is one of "the" debates in the brewing and related industries at the moment - barley and enzymes is cheaper, less energy and water intensive and less demanding on supply chain than is malt brewing, and apparently (debatably) gives product of equal quality (remember we are talking mostly anout mega lager type beers). Anyone who's brewed a gluten free beer from that sorghum extract has made a beer this way - the stuff isn't made out of malted sorghum, its made with raw sorghum and enzymes.

Your worries are IMO unfounded though - its always going to be a mega thing primarily. The range of malted grains is unlikely to diminish - to be honest, basically everything but stock Pale/Pilsner malt is already a niche product for the craft market. That market isn't going to go away. Sure, some big maltsters who primarily supply the megas with pale malt might go down in flames, but the guys who supply most of the good smaller demand malts probably wont see a big change in their market. I think that largely, they aren't the same people. Prices might go up though and getting malting grade barley might be an issue.
 

MHB

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Just putting out a warning
I have several litres of various enzymes and mixed enzymes that I got to experiment with reducing Sorghum for GF brewing. Some sorghum contains a protein that poisons the a-Amylase, notably present in red sorghum and the most common sorghum available in Australia (Pacific Buster) is full of it.
After a lot of dicking around the best extraction I got was 45% of grain weight, after pre boiling the Sorghum to gelatinise, with Bio Glucanase in there while it was heating up, allow to cool then heat back up with a 5 step programmed infusion Monumental waste of time and a major PITA!

Not saying enzymes arent useful and that we wont be seeing a lot more of them in future, just not as easy as the blurb sheets say, for corn, rice, wheat and barley they are a lot better to use but far from a magic bullet.
Mark
 

punkin

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Just putting out a warning
I have several litres of various enzymes and mixed enzymes that I got to experiment with reducing Sorghum for GF brewing. Some sorghum contains a protein that poisons the a-Amylase, notably present in red sorghum and the most common sorghum available in Australia (Pacific Buster) is full of it.
After a lot of dicking around the best extraction I got was 45% of grain weight, after pre boiling the Sorghum to gelatinise, with Bio Glucanase in there while it was heating up, allow to cool then heat back up with a 5 step programmed infusion Monumental waste of time and a major PITA!

Not saying enzymes arent useful and that we wont be seeing a lot more of them in future, just not as easy as the blurb sheets say, for corn, rice, wheat and barley they are a lot better to use but far from a magic bullet.
Mark

Absolutely Mark. No matter how you look at it, corn is a pita. I've certainly given up.
 

evildrakey

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How would the go with Rice and Mungbeans?

I've got a recipe from the 1500's (Ni Tsan - Cloud Forest Hall Rules for Eating and Drinking) called Duke Cheng's Mung Bean Wine...

As far as I know, Mung Beans have no diastatic potential so it might be a way to get a clean mash without resorting to Koji...
 

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