English Ipa (real One)

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Dunkel_Boy

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Alright, since I've been slapped in the face a few times by the style nazis, after I brew my Pacific IPA I'll be doing a 'genuine' English/Burton-STYLE IPA, for my own curiosity's sake. I may be way off with this, but I still like being different... however I would still like this to remain to style.

For a 5gal/19L batch...
5kg Joe White pale
0.25kg Weyermann cara-aroma (350EBC)
SG - 1060-1065
SRM - 11.5

25g Target (11%) w/ 60min left
7g First Gold, Goldings, Fuggles w/ 35min left
7g First Gold, Goldings, Fuggles + Irish Moss w/ 20min left
7g First Gold, Goldings, Fuggles at flameout... plus probably same again for dry hop, or might just make it 20g of the best smelling one (First Gold probably).
IBU - 60-65

The yeast... WLP023, Whitelabs Burton Ale of course.

Would this qualify as a 'genuine' IPA? I think it'd taste great, that's for sure, and if it's to style, then I'd be killing two birds while I was stoned, fantastic.
Thoughts please.
Cheers,
Adrian
 

jayse

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Hi Dunkel boy,
I think your choice of crystal malt isn't really to style but you could use it in a IPA and get the results your after, i would half the amount though as your looking at a very dark amber to brown beer there with that much.
125g should be enough and have the colour right in the middle of the guidelines.
Even though IPA can be quite dark i think it would score much better if you aim for a reasonbly paler example.

Happy brewing
Jayse
 

Dunkel_Boy

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Yeah, I suspected as such. Maybe my Promash guidelines need updating, damn computers... thanks for the advice.
I might go halfway there, 175g or something, I still want it a bit darker/maltier than usual, with that hop schedule I know there will be a lot of hop presence.
 

PostModern

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Caraaroma is a great grain, but as jayse has said that quantity is prob too dark for the style. And for the "genuine" Burton taste you'll need gypsum in the mash water to get all the sulphate goodness out of the yeast (according to my reading) although I was pretty impressed with the character of the yeast in the one batch I've used it in, even with soft Illawarra water.

What AA are the "First Gold, Goldings, Fuggles"? 21g seems a bit light on to me if you're really after hoppiness.
 

Dunkel_Boy

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First Gold is 7%, Goldings and Fuggles are 4.75%.
That's 7g of each, so 21g each addition. About half the IBUs are obtained from these hops.
I think I'll probably whack about 25g of First Gold in to dry hop.
 

Sean

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You like First Gold?
 

neonmeate

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most genuine burton IPA recipes look something like: 1080, all pale malt, crapload of goldings. here's one:
http://www.ipass.net/mpdixon/Homebrew/1837...rical%20IPA.htm

i think water character is obviously crucial in recreating the flavour. look at the water analysis of sydney water and then look at burton. it's like 100 times the sulfate and calcium and magnesium levels.
i made an IPA last year where i tried to match the burton water with heaps of gypsum + epsom salts. and 75 IBUs of fuggles and goldings. it was so pungent i could barely drink it.
who knows how much alpha acid hops had back in those days though. or what their utilisation was like. according to wheeler they used to just give the hops a long simmer rather than a hard boil.

where do you get first gold by the way? i want some.
 

PostModern

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Dunkel_Boy said:
First Gold is 7%, Goldings and Fuggles are 4.75%.
That's 7g of each, so 21g each addition. About half the IBUs are obtained from these hops.
I think I'll probably whack about 25g of First Gold in to dry hop.
[post="48450"][/post]​
Ah, 7g of each. Sweet. Er, I mean bitter.

neonmeate said:
i think water character is obviously crucial in recreating the flavour. look at the water analysis of sydney water and then look at burton. it's like 100 times the sulfate and calcium and magnesium levels.
[post="48516"][/post]​
Dunkel_Boy is a Brisbanite. What's the water hardness like up there?
 

Ross

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Water - Brisbane Australia


Calcium: 21.0 ppm
Sulfate: 20.0 ppm
Magnesium: 12.0 ppm
Chloride: 2.0 ppm
Sodium: 34.0 ppm Bicarbonate: 115.0 ppm
PH: 7.0
Notes:
 

SteveSA

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Looks the goods DB but couple of things...

I'm with Jayse & PoMo regarding the Caraaroma. I'd use a lighter crystal and less of it to reduce the colour to around 9 SRM.

Your hop additions for flavour also seem a little early and very light on. 21g @ 20mins? FWIW I've used around 80g @ 15 mins to get a big flavour hit (but I think too many hops aren't nearly enough:)) Don't be shy!

Finally, if you're steeping hops at flameout, dry hopping will be unnecessary.

My $0.02 worth

Steve
 

Dunkel_Boy

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Interesting about the water, I've also read that low (bi)carbonate and high sulphate is the stuff you want when we're talking high IBU beers.
First Gold I am wanting to get from NZ, a kg of it, though perhaps that place in Melbourne... I believe that First Gold = Brewer's Gold, though I may be wrong there.
What I usually do with the 20 minute addition is spread it out from 20-17 minutes, though you're right I should boost it up.
Dry hopping has always been strange for me, the flameout addition sometimes works, sometimes doesn't... probably something to do with cooling speed (ie temperature). I might boost the flameout addition, though I still prefer to have beer sitting on hops for a week or less. What I usually do is rack to secondary on top of a pile of hops, cold condition this as well and it's usually quite effective. I'll look into it, I'll look back at my notes.
I'll also check out the water, my water may be different to Ross's; I'm on south-west side.
Thanks for your help everyone.
Adrian
 

Dunkel_Boy

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I'd just like to clarify that Brewer's Gold isn't the same as First Gold, I said that and it was incorrect, my apologies.
 

Dunkel_Boy

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neonmeate said:
where do you get first gold by the way? i want some.
[post="48516"][/post]​
Hopco... http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Methods/HopCo/index.shtml
I believe you contact them, say, "I would like 500g/1kg of this hop." and they say, "Ok, we have that, it's in season and we've shipped it in from overseas, that will be $25/kg" or words to that effect, though I've never gotten anything from them. I should get something from them.

Ok, so based on Brisbane water, what are your recommendations per 20L batch to harden the water?
 

Sean

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I'm a bit confused (not unusual). Have you tried First Gold before or not? It has a very odd flavour as an aroma hop - not one I'd choose to put in anything, let alone a "British IPA".
 

Dunkel_Boy

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I've smelled it, and looking at the info from byo.com, it seems to be a bit like Goldings... I'm basically going after a Goldings flavour, but the Fuggles and First Gold are meant to be 'flankers', similar to Goldings, meant to complement it anyway.
 

Sean

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Although it does smell vaguely like Goldings as fresh hops, my experience of beers brewed with it as the only or predominant hop (my own and commecial examples) is that the resultant flavour is very different. It's probably closer to Goldings than it is to anything else, but very noticably different (and inferior). It is, after all, more of a grower's hop than a brewer's. I'd happily use it as a bittering hop again, but not as an aroma hop.
 

jgriffin

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Dunkel_Boy said:
Ok, so based on Brisbane water, what are your recommendations per 20L batch to harden the water?
I'd also love to hear oppinions on this, i'm still very green when it comes to water chemistry.
 

Ross

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Igriffin,

Beersmith, has an easy to use calculator for adjusting water profile & tells you what to add to acheive it... - download free trial at www.beersmith.com

cheers Ross
 

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