Electric Vs Gas

[joshuahardie]

Hi All,

I know most have their opinions on which is better for their brewery, Gas or Electric heating, but I am curious if anyone has any solid research about which one is cheaper, especially cost vs time.

My feeling is that electricity is cheaper and quieter , but would take longer to get a batch to the boil.
Whilst gas is faster, noisier, but produces more mj's or BTU's of energy / heat.

I have the chance to upgrade my BIAB setup, and I can't decide between a 4 ring burner, or a 2000-2400w over the side immersion heater.

I can handle slightly longer boil times if electric can handle boiling 30 litres in a reasonable time, simply for the convenience of power points, and never having to worry about gas bottles etc etc.

Opinions aside, anyone got a verdict?

Cheers Josh

 

[MarkBastard]

From memory only electricity works out significantly cheaper.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

I made some comments here http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...c=25043&hl=

Having used both gas and a heat stick I would go electric again in a snap

I have my HLT on a timer so the water is ready to go when I wake up or get home from work

Shaves a fair bit off my brew day

Then I'll put the heat stick into the kettle as the the tun drains and its probably 10 mins after sparging finishes that I have a rolling boil

Can also make mash tun adjustment if I miss mash temps

Volume wise I have used a 2400W heat stick for 27L final batch size without problem

I have 2 * 2400W but have not used both in a long while now that I have a timer

Pics of my stand incorporating a heat stick are here http://hyperfox.info/webalbum04/

Cheers

Edit: Cost wise electricity is still cheaper than gas at say about 20c per kW hour and say 2.4kW at 3 hours ~ $1.50 per batch - I found I was getting 5-6 batches out of a $25 9kg gas bottle

 

[raven19]

The over the side immersion heaters are gold. So useful in the brewery.

Gas may have more power, but you may struggle to get all the heat into the wort - compared to electric which is immersed in the wort.

In saying that both have down and up sides.

Personally Electric for me.

Nothing worst than running out of gas when part way thru a boil and the shops are shut.

2c.

 

[QldKev]

I think you have hit most points already.

Electricity
Cheaper to run <$1 per batch
Quite - very nice to have especially if brewing in a flat or out of normal hours.
Don't need to worry about ventalation as much (although steam is another story)

Using my BIAB (where I add sparge water later) I raise 29L of water from 24 to 69c. That would take a 2400w 38 minutes. And then about 30mins to get Mash out say 65c up to the boil.
You could always go 2 elements to get a decent heating time.

Elements can be sourced cheap, ie kettle.

LPG
I pay $24 per LPG fill, and get about 8 batches, about $3 per batch
3-ring is quite, my mongolian and also Nasa are loud.
Need to vent the LPG; I brew outside so not an issue.
LPG you can run out half way through a batch; I have 3 bottles, so not such an issue.
Depending on system can be a lot faster than electricity to get to the temp. (My mod'd 3 ring = 15mins, 12mins for my Mongolian to get to mash in temp) Which is fater than even 2 x 2400w elements could achieve.
LPG is generally dearer to setup, burner + reg + bottle
LPG heats up the work area more (could be good or bad depending on time of year)

Attached is my Water heating spreadsheet to calc heating times for electricity
View attachment water_heating.xls


QldKev

 

[absinthe]

i use natural gas and for the amount of power i can get into my pot (7.5kW measured) it works out the same or cheaper (less than $2 a run). but LPG is much more than elec. but i love the control with gas plus i use it on my "water distiller"

 

[joshuahardie]

Some really great info there guys.
At this stage based on my earlier thoughts, and your info I am leaning towards electric.

I did not consider that I could incorporate a timer and the fridgemate to dial in my mash temps whilst i sleep or attend to other things.
Also being able to insulate my pot when raising to boil temps, is another benefit.

I am guessing that the electric elements are either totally on or totally off, and to regulate a boil you have to be constantly switching them on and off? You can't just turn them down to get a rolling boil can you?

 

[Wolfy]

My 2400W urn takes about 30-60mins to get 32L to the boil - no solid research as such, just non scientific observation, hope it helps none the less.

 

[joshuahardie]

i use natural gas and for the amount of power i can get into my pot (7.5kW measured) it works out the same or cheaper (less than $2 a run). but LPG is much more than elec. but i love the control with gas plus i use it on my "water distiller"

Great info,
In my example, Natural Gas is not an option, but great food for thought

 

[Cortez The Killer]

I am guessing that the electric elements are either totally on or totally off, and to regulate a boil you have to be constantly switching them on and off? You can't just turn them down to get a rolling boil can you?

That's right - there is some device that can switch the element on or off quickly to reduce out put and you can wire a box up which reduces heat out put - but I'm not versed in these

But the boil can simply be regulated by adding or removing insulation on the vessel

I find that I get 3.5L per hour boil off for the various volumes I make ie 16L - 27L batches

The advantage of electric is that you can determine this boil off and adjust your volumes accordingly and know with reasonable certainty that you will achieve the same boil off next time

Cheers

 

[Pollux]

This is quite an interesting topic for me right now as I'm looking at upgrading to double batches within a few weeks...

Question is, would any element capable of raising enough wort to have a finished volume of 50L also be able to run on a 10A circuit?? Keeping in mind that out apartment has ONE power circuit, and this includes the garage. So there would be two fridges upstairs potentially kicking in, plus whatever else the wife turns on (LCD tv etc) while I'm downstairs...

 

[Cortez The Killer]

I think you'd struggle to get a decent boil and things are gonna take forever

You could use a heat stick to supplement a burner and reduce the amount of gas you use

But without a second stick and a second circuit I reckon you'd be disappointed with an all electric system

Cheers

Edit: I've had the 2400w heat stick, 3 fridges, a march pump and what ever else the Mrs is running inside on the same 10amp circuit and have not tripped it

 

[QldKev]

This is quite an interesting topic for me right now as I'm looking at upgrading to double batches within a few weeks...

Question is, would any element capable of raising enough wort to have a finished volume of 50L also be able to run on a 10A circuit?? Keeping in mind that out apartment has ONE power circuit, and this includes the garage. So there would be two fridges upstairs potentially kicking in, plus whatever else the wife turns on (LCD tv etc) while I'm downstairs...

Sounds like my house
1 x 32amp for stove
1 x ??amp for Hotwater
2 x 10amp for lights
1 x 16amp for power!!! wtf...

and I get >$700 power bills!


QldKev

 

[smithy010]

My first post on this forum i believe, but i'll leave my 2 cents.

I use 2x1kW low intensity elements in my 50l boil vessel, and it is only just sufficient to keep 30l of wort on a rolling boil.
Ideally i would add another 1kW, and it would be awesome. At 2kW i get about 1degree/minute temperature increase on 40l of HLT water.

I have a PID temp controller ($60 from china) that i have wired up to a solid state relay. The PID controller can control heat input by pulsing the power on and off, so it's really good as my herms heat source, HLT, and boil vessel.

Advantages: Cheap to run, and automatic temperature control.

Disadvantages: A bit on the slow side.

Never used them, but i would guess that if a standard heat stick or over the side element is used, you may risk caramelising the wort on the element and creating burnt flavours.. Maybe..

 

[Pollux]

mmmm, after reading Kev's post I rechecked the circuit breakers.

I have a 10A for lights, and a 16A for power.....

Back to the italian spiral it seems...

 

[mxd]

my 2200 watt couldn't get 35 ltrs boiling so I run the 2200 and a 2400 and get around .8 -> 1 Deg a minute increase.

 

[redbeard]

I have an electric HLT (2400watt) which I fill with hot water (45'? - gas) from the tap and use a wok burner for the boiler. My lpg gas refills are about $17 (inner syd).

 

[jakub76]

Check this build out if you haven't already
http://www.wortomatic.com/articles/Baltobr...-Electric-Stand
I'm also considering an electric HERMS and was very impressed with the spa heater element he's using in his kettle. Smaller elements up to about 4000W go for around $40 on ebay. Seems heaps cheaper to aquire and run than gas.
I am also concerned about scortching though, anyone experienced it with an element?
What about a jacketed ceramic element? Bobbin elements.
http://www.thermalproducts.com.au/hotwater...erheader.html#3

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

My previous system was all electric. My new one utilises both.

3.6kw 98 ltr HLT but I normally only need to warm up around 90
2.4kw herms that heats around 15ltrs it has around 9mtrs of coiled copper in an old corny keg
23jet mongolian burner for those larger 85ltr boils, plenty of grunt. (I intend to trial the 10jet at some stage)

I initially thought all electric was the way to go, convenient and cheaper. In my situation its not whats the cheapest or most convenient but what I think I have more control over. Yep gas is a little dearer but I find it easier to clean my kettle and also I have a better boil. Although elements worked well in my previous rig, they were a pain to clean. Over time crud will build up and it really should be cleaned off. I brewed for 18mths with an electric kettle and would have brewed near on 800ltrs.

BYB

 

[pdilley]

This Rudd Government has a scary agenda to raise electricity prices to 3 times what they are. First rates hike going in before end of year somewhere under 30% hike in current rates. You'll still get better costs for a while but if the price of gas does not increase as well then in the end they'll be the same.

Then again your overall electricity bill might be costing as much as top end mobile phone plan each year so your brewing money might be reduced overall

Cheers,
Brewer Pete