Electric Kettle Element Ratings

[Tony]

Calling all folks with an electric kettle..........

Im thinking of going electric and am wondering what sort of wattage is needed to boil 60 or 70 odd liters for a 54 liter final brew volume.

and what is the optimal "watts per square inch" for a kettle element?

Im planning on building a 100 liter volume Braumiser style rig and am interested in peoples experiences.

Im thinking of modifying the lid of my 100 liter pot to make it a domed lid with a chimney to reduce the power required to boil. Like this:

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8908

and also insulate the pot with lagging of some shiny ss type im sure

Also............. do upi leave the element on hard all the time during the boil or do you control it somehow?

Im interested in any experience you have.

:icon_cheers:

 

[raven19]

Tony, good to read you are getting into the electric kettle!

My big bertha kettle gets up to 100L preboil volume up to the boil with 2 x 2400W sheathed ceramic elements. Just takes some time. More suitable for double batches (similar to your planned 60 - 70L). I run these either on or off. No controller flicking it on or off.

My typical single batches in a keggle use a combination of 2400W and a 3600W element to get 33L preboil volume up to the boil then I go back to just one element for a rolling boil.

I would not bother with the Chimney lid, just keep the lid on your kettle till almost up to the boil, then remove it. Works a treat for me.

Elements need to be able to be cleaned easily. Immersion elements are high heat density but I have not had scorching issues in a kettle situation.

Edit:
Big Bertha Kettle Thread - Linky

 

[matho]

tony,

this might help work things out

View attachment element_sizing.xls

forget the left hand side

fill in the the top left and the bottom pot size and then the step temp and sizes, it work out the loss thru the top of the pot and how long the temp rises will take

cheers matho

 

[Crazy]

Tony

My Kettle is custom 120L however most brewing I do is worked around 60L left at the end of boil. I use two 4800W elements controlled by a pot input zero crossover SSR. Once boil is reached (or just before) the pot is reduced to about 50 - 60% for a good rolling boil with no cover. Just before the end of the boil I put on the cover to sanitise and need to watch for boil overs like a hawk.

Cheers Derrick

 

[Tony]

Mmmmmm the origional lite r50 liter unit uses a 3000w element....... so 3600w would do......... but im thinking i will go 4800w

faster steps in the mash and only 30 min to bring 65 liters to the boil.

Will look at getting a nice long element that loops around the inside of the 500mm kettle 4 or 5 times id say.

cheers

 

[Tony]

Tony

My Kettle is custom 120L however most brewing I do is worked around 60L left at the end of boil. I use two 4800W elements controlled by a pot input zero crossover SSR. Once boil is reached (or just before) the pot is reduced to about 50 - 60% for a good rolling boil with no cover. Just before the end of the boil I put on the cover to sanitise and need to watch for boil overs like a hawk.

Cheers Derrick

Ok so if 9600w @ 50% is boiling it well....... 4800 should work fine then..... just longer to get to boil but insulation will help that id expect.

great info folks.

 

[Crazy]

The 9600W is an issue that stops me brewing at the moment as we are in a rental while we build our new house (and more inportantly the new shed). The entire brewery is electric with two 4800W in the HLT and 3600W RIMS tube. My elements are just the Grimwood hot water heater elements. They have a sickel shape that i bent a little further to allow me to drop an chiller between them.

Cheers Derrick

 

[kjparker]

Just make sure you have enough power to run that!

4800W is 20 amps. You'll need some decent power to run that!

 

[Tony]

Just make sure you have enough power to run that!

4800W is 20 amps. You'll need some decent power to run that!

Im a sparkie and my power board backs through the wall into my brewing space....... wont be a problem with a dedicated circuit.

cheers

 

[itmechanic]

Probobly not any help but my new 650L kettle for 500L batches has 24KW of elements.
I Imagine 4800W would be plenty.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

It will depend a little on your kettle shape tony - a lid will mostly nullify that for your mash ramp times and getting to the boil, but during the boil, you will find it that your rolling boil will be easier to get with a lower powered element in a taller thinner pot than a lower wider pot.

As matho's calculator suggests, the wider your pot, the more heat loss through the top of the wort and less goes into giving you "boil vigor" - so if you have a really low wide pot, perhaps consider upping the spec on your element.

 

[Tony]

Thanks TB

My pot will be very similar spec to the 50 liter Braumeister and they use a 3200w......... imp planning 4800w.

It will be 48cm wide and 50cm high..... aboout 90 liters volume after checking.

Im thinking id rather be looking at it than looking for it and the PID should turn it down to a sweet spot when i set a setpoint

any thoughts on running the boil with a PID?

 

[Crazy]

Tony

It would be very difficult as the temperature will be pretty much constant regardles of boil intensity (mine tends to move less than a couple of 10ths of a degree). The SSR I use cost about the same as the normal input version and came with the POT. I think it was about $80 with heat sink from Dore Electric. The only thing I ended up using true PID is on the RIMS heater.

My new setup that is yet to be commissioned dispite being finished for a couple of months, uses all 4-20mA controled SSRs driven directly via the PLC.

Cheers Derrick

 

[Tony]

linky linky???

being a leco/instro/control system engineer..... you speak a my language

Seoing as it will be a Braumiester "type" ( i wont say clone) rig... i want something simple that will run anything.

Im looking at these to run the rig during mashing and should be able to get it to boil ..... maybe

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_pag...p;products_id=5

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_pag...;products_id=30

 

[Crazy]

http://www.doreelec.com.au/page2.html

page 10 of the electrical componants page

 

[matho]

tony,

I run a PID algorithm during the boil, I have it programmed so i can adjust it between 93 to 120 but i seems that if i set it to 95 its bearly boiling, 96 its a mild boil , 97 a bit more vigorous and 98 and above its boiling its nut off. What you have to worry about is the I part of the PID algorithm because it can ramp up if there is a constant error present for a length of time, I have my I gain capped at 100 so it can't ramp up, I don't know if you can do that with commercial PIDs

cheers steve

 

[raven19]

I reckon with a combination of different element sizes that can be used together or singly, along with kettle lagging (that can be removed if need be) from your kettle you will find a good balance without the need for PID control for the boil.