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Egyptian Seasonal Beer.

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chiller

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Hi Guys,

After reading the latest BYO magazine with American seasonal beers I felt compelled to do some research into a "seasonal beer" from the source.

Brewing has its roots in the Sumerian and Egyptian cultures many years past, and as such we don't have a huge amount of data to go on for this project.

The owner of the Harrad's department store commissioned a beer brewed along very traditional lines and because it was very unique sold for quite an amount per bottle.

I'd like help on formaulating my Egyptian seasonal beer.

A seasonal beer needs a gravity around the 1.080 mark and this should be easy to acheive.

I've guesstimated the extract rate from a couple of the ingredients but feel from experience they will yeild about the expected amount.

6.5 kilos JW Traditional Ale malt.

That is the basis for the beer.

Because the region I want to highlight with this beeer has a tradition of sticky date pudding I will use 3 previously made puddings in the mash.

I estimate that the date syrup [not the packet mix stuff] from the sticky date pudding can because of the caramel flavour profile substitute for our modern day crystal.

I intend to add more dates to the boil but my dilema is whether to FWD [First Wort Date] or FOD [Flame out Date.

Now FWDing offers a smoother character but throws up the possiblity of Date haze when chilled below 12 degrees C. FOD doesn't pose the same dilema but you miss the smooth Date character.

I've already started [excuse the pun] my starter from an extract of Camel saliva and an Oassis plant called Cannia Lux Or. I sourced this along the old Ghan train line. It apparently grows only after many years in contactact with dry camel dung. The plant has the correct wild yeast concentrations to hold in check the rapid lactification of the sticky date pudding extract/starter mix. This ensure the correct Camel blanket under tone in the fermentation.

I'm told that the leaves of the common Humulus lupulus Origanum sipyleum can be substituted for the minor amount of bittering used in this beer.

From the research I've conducted this yeast strain must be fermented at at least 30 degrees C so the advice of HBS owners appears to be correct when making an Eygtian seasonal beer.

The beer needs a further lactic acid rest of 12 hours in a constant 38 degree temperature so this is the ideal full summer beer. I suppose the tradition of Diacetyl resting beers has its roots in this practise.

I feel that I may depart from tradition myself and bottle this beer instead of kegging and if I do I'd probably drift a bit further to the adverturous side of brewing and step into the unknown outside of the square and use a square of dark chocolate to prime each bottle -- lack of head won't be a problem as the camel saliva yeast concentrate can be stirred back in just prior to priming and bottling. The chocolate, I bellieve, will add further complexity to the caramel acheived by the sticky date pudding syrup.

I suppose where I need help is the mash regime as not many brewers I know have made this beer.

Please make some suggestions as to the correct temp to mash at as I feel this will impact on the success or failure of this project.

Of course I value the expertise of this furum and some fellow brewers offered me advice today on what to do with this beer so I wait for your comment.

I feel this beer may make us famous -- we have the chance to stamp our collective talents on a beer style in need of revival. Perhaps this was the ancestoral Old Ale or Barley wine.

Steve.
 

dicko

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Hi Steve,

Could be good for the Mash Paddle entry. :eek:
It would give us all a better chance. :lol:
But hang on, your'e a judge aren't you? :D

Cheers
 

Doc

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Shit did I miss Xmas.
Is it April 1 already ?

Doc :p
 

Kai

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You'll need a special rest step if you're using dates in your beer. This rest, the date rest, is best conducted at a temperature of around 50-60C, the optimum range for the alpha-dactyliferase enzyme. However, you won't find this enzyme in your normal mash grist, you'll need to add a rich source such as camel's milk. A long history of brewing this marvellous style has led the egyptians to find that the enzyme works best and is stabilised if the fresh milk is premixed with egg yolk, cornflour, sugar and vanilla before being added to the mash. In other words, you'll need some custard in your sticky date.
 

big d

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i can offer some limited advice here chiller.ive been to egypt (true) and sailed down the nile and enjoyed some egyptian beer.shame i cant remember what it was.

didnt see to many dates along the way but no doubt these are highly sort after especially in the bread game.
as for the 38 degree rest well forget that.why do you think they made pyramids.i did the long and adventurous walk/crawl into the pyramids at gizah and they are a welcome relief from the heat so this is the place to cc the beer.leave it too long in here and it mummifies. ;)
and forget about going outside of the square.you need to be thinking of going outside of the triangle if you mean it.eg pyramids.
and forget about the humulus lupulus origanum sipyleum.you need ground papyrus.very common along the nile.

now speaking to an old wise gate keeper at abu simbel which was dedicated to the gods amun-re,ptah,and re-harakhty and to the diefied ramesses himself,he silently whispered into my ear when i mention about traditional beverages.....cocacola.no i said what about beer.do you make it.yes he whispered but it is a secret.
further i delved and gained some ingredients that may help you chiller.
one was the scrappings of dried scarab beetle <_< the other was a wonderous herb found only in dier el bahri and the colossi of memnon which is south of the valley of the kings on the west bank of the nile at luxor.
it may be a huge task chiller but it is achievable. ;)

if all else fails try the philae temples and look at the hieroglyphics on the walls as im sure i saw some beer recipes there.


cheers
big d :ph34r:
 

nonicman

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In other words, you'll need some custard in your sticky date.
another tried and true method of the ancients for better head retention, extra body and to honour the fertility of the harvest, a cup of freshly "milked" camel semen added to secondary can help.
 

MCWB

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Kai said:
You'll need a special rest step if you're using dates in your beer. This rest, the date rest, is best conducted at a temperature of around 50-60C, the optimum range for the alpha-dactyliferase enzyme.
Actually I find date rests quite easy to accomplish: even at 20C I just plonk my date down in a comfy chair, RDW and HAHB! :chug:
 

dreamboat

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Chiller,
If you FWD, you will need to increase the quantity of dates to account for the loss of delicate date flavours absorbed into the mash. You should, however, get a smoother date taste as a result, when compared to FOD which can be somewhat harsh.



dreamboat
 

chiller

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dreamboat said:
Chiller,
If you FWD, you will need to increase the quantity of dates to account for the loss of delicate date flavours absorbed into the mash. You should, however, get a smoother date taste as a result, when compared to FOD which can be somewhat harsh.



dreamboat
Hi Dreamboat,

Excellent points you make and of course I concur on the later point, however, when checking the ancient scoll I did find intersting technical flaws in your discussion. My original suggestion was First Wort Dating as opposed to what I presume is your suggestion of First Mash Dating.

From what I read on this topic FMD runs the risk of germination of the dates and the consequence of "off" flavours.

I remain of course indebted to you for the thought you have put into the discussion on this, a beer style worthy of revisiting if for no other reason than for the simple fact it ............ can someone think of a reason?


Steve.
 

Weizguy

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Short thought here: Will roasted grains overpower any dating you do (whether FWD, FMD or speed-dating)?
Is there a date:dark grain ratio (D:DG) ratio that works best?
 
J

Jovial_Monk

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Hmmm I doubt any historical Egyptian beer would be made from 6.5Kg malt.

Get some barley, with some admixture wheat rye oats. Steep, put into hole in the ground (or fridge) to germinate. Rub the grain, steep again, again put somewhere cool to germinate/malt.

Form into loaves, bake in low oven. Crumble in a colander over fermenter, wash sugars into fermenter by running water into the broken up bread in the colander. Add whole unsulphured dates, that is your yeast. Would also add some honey, and a couple of spices.

Boil? What boil?

Drink straight from fermenter using a long straw

Jovial Monk
 

MCWB

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chiller said:
...your suggestion of First Mash Dating
Do you date on the first mash? :wub: Or do you mash on the first date? :unsure:
 

chiller

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Jovial_Monk said:
Hmmm I doubt any historical Egyptian beer would be made from 6.5Kg malt.

Get some barley, with some admixture wheat rye oats. Steep, put into hole in the ground (or fridge) to germinate. Rub the grain, steep again, again put somewhere cool to germinate/malt.

Form into loaves, bake in low oven. Crumble in a colander over fermenter, wash sugars into fermenter by running water into the broken up bread in the colander. Add whole unsulphured dates, that is your yeast. Would also add some honey, and a couple of spices.

Boil? What boil?

Drink straight from fermenter using a long straw

Jovial Monk
I seem to be somewhat perplexed by your post Mr. Monk.

I was under the impression from your robes that you were a tubby friar from the middle ages possible a Belgian Abbey, but am I to presume [or is presumrtion too much] that despite your obvious middle ages heritage I hence would again presume "dark ages knowledge" and because the dark ages lacked enlightenment from previous eons you are perhaps applying handed down information from other unreliable sources.

I notice from your suggestion, and truly I take them on board, you suggest spices. From the papyrii handed to me recently [see reference to Eygptian trip by Big D] spices aren't that popular with the Eygptian drinkers at the bar after a hard days work at the pyramid. You'll appreciate I need to take that suggestion with a grain of Anise and step back inside the triangle.

I like the idea of baking loaves to get the malt for the mash. A collegue with actual brewing certification suggested that privately off line -- umoungst other things regarding this thread.

If I can quote something you said "Steep, put into hole in the ground (or fridge) to germinate."

This raises an interesting and yet bafling point -- from your knowledge of Ancient Eygptian brewing am i to assume that perhaps, and I admit to drawing a long bow, perhaps the Ancient Eygptians had advanced refridgeration technology and it wasn't the Germans who discovered lager brewing but the Ancient Eygptians. Possibly I need to re-visit the fermentation temperature on this beeer.

To boil or not to boil -- it all comes down to hot air and in the desert there is plenty.

If I hurry, this beer may be ready for the AHB case for 2007. I'm reliably told that a long aging process will have no affect on the taste, but it will mean a couple of years pass before anyone has to drink it.

As always

Seeking knowledge

Steve.
 
J

Jovial_Monk

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Hmmm my post was a bit of a mishmash put together at work without reference to resources like:

Ode to Ninkasi, you can find it on the web
R Protz wrote about the Anchor Brewing and Harrods Egyptian beers (Taste of Beer)
Clive LaPensee Homebrewers Companion books cover this topic too

After the jovial Monk 2nd Birthday Bash I am happy to put together a long explanation to post here, or I can make some of the books available to you to read here next Sat pm, will even offer a nice cold glass Sufflolk Strong or something.

BTW, the "hole in the ground" was the Ancient Egyptians' form of refridgeration for the malt they were making, nothing to do with making lager.

Jovial Monk
 

chiller

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Jovial_Monk said:
Hmmm my post was a bit of a mishmash put together at work without reference to resources like:

Ode to Ninkasi, you can find it on the web
R Protz wrote about the Anchor Brewing and Harrods Egyptian beers (Taste of Beer)
Clive LaPensee Homebrewers Companion books cover this topic too

After the jovial Monk 2nd Birthday Bash I am happy to put together a long explanation to post here, or I can make some of the books available to you to read here next Sat pm, will even offer a nice cold glass Sufflolk Strong or something.

BTW, the "hole in the ground" was the Ancient Egyptians' form of refridgeration for the malt they were making, nothing to do with making lager.

Jovial Monk
Well this will have to be my final post on this subject for awhile as I have to prepare for a major brewing weekend with the crew at Grumpys and Goliath brewing. Seems you have an event that I'm unable to attend.

Thank you for your offer of additional information but you can appreciate there is just so much you need to know about a nonsense subject.

I know of the sources you quote and while I don't dispute any of the material we may be at odds as to the actual style of beer. I'm referring to the hence unknown Eygptian seasonal beer as opposed to the Harrod's Eygtian beer. Very similar but nonetheless different. Your lack of knowledge is understanable due to the recent discovery of "hidden knowledge" revealed to me off list by globe trotter -- Big D. As a Monk you understand the need to know something others don't.

Whilst I appreciate all the contributions on this topic it is time I put my date where it belongs and contemplate my navel.


As always

Steve. :D

:chug:
 

barfridge

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needs oak chips



















...or perhaps oysters
 

Darren

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Hope I didn't miss this.....you would probably need to add a few gob fulls of saliva into the mash to increase the available amylase
 
J

Jovial_Monk

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Hmmmm was gonna offer Chiller a stubby of chicha when I got around to making some

;)

JM
 

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Darren said:
Hope I didn't miss this.....you would probably need to add a few gob fulls of saliva into the mash to increase the available amylase
I thought camel spit would be more appropriate
 

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