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Dry Yeast Starters And Cultivating

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crd0902

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Hi all, can't really find my answers I'm looking for so started a post. I've been reading about starters and stepping up starters and reusing yeast cake and splitting smack packs. I have a couple questions. I so far have only used or even seen dry yeast like s23 and us-05 and normally rehydrate in 100 odd mls of water and no drama but slow start. I see people talking about yeast starters but with liquid not dry yeast. Also can't find exactly how to step up a starter like how many mls of wort ect. I read a post about saving yeast cake and rinsing the crud out of it and saving in jars in fridge for reuse which I like but will this work with dry yeast ok. Any help is great cheers
Chris
 

crd0902

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Ok just been reading some more and it seems I shouldn't make starters with dry yeast and some say it's not really a great idea to even rehydrate. How correct is this. Should I try to reuse my yeast cake or just go try find some liquid yeasts.
 

cam89brewer

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I don't see anything wrong with making a starter with dry yeast. Especially with higher gravity yeasts it is nearly essential if you want it to ferment out properly and quickly, but the best option generally is to get smack packs as you can split them and you generally have a better variety of yeasts to choose from.
 

Wolfy

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What you 'should' do is up to you.

However, dry yeast is 'packed' with all the nutrients it needs for a healthy ferment as part of the drying and packaging process, which is why most would suggest you do not make a starter for dry yeast, simply pitch the correct amount and it's good to go.
The 'Yeast' book - written by experts - suggests that you kill up to 50% of yeast cells by pitching without rehydrating, however yeast is a living thing and grows, reproduces and adapts, so many people pitch without rehydrating and report good results.

If you practice sanitary procedures there is no reason you can't re-use your previous batch of yeast. I like to rinse the yeast but some people simply pitch it directly into the next batch.
 

Online Brewing Supplies

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I make a starter if I use dry yeast for a big beer.
Dont buy repacked dry yeast, its life is shortened by exposure to O2.
If you want dry yeast buy in the original 12gm pack and you should be sweet.
Nev
 

crd0902

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Ok thanks. The idea of 'chillers's post about yeast farming is what I like. Going to give it a crack just wasn't sure about doing it with dry yeast but should be fine and save me a fair wack of dollars if I do it right. My sanitation I think is really good, only ever had one bad batch and It was due to a supplied yeast not starting. Thanks heaps chris
 

crd0902

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Also all of my beers so far are normal gravity. Happy with my kits and bits at the moment.
 

Florian

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Fermentis suggests that their dry yeast should be stored at 4C once opened and used within 7 days.

No idea what that means for re-packaged yeast though, I guess it depends on a lot of factors like cleanliness of the packaging area, temp, time of exposure to O2 and possible purging of packaging with Co2.

I have just finished rehydrating and pitching 4 packets of repackaged dry yeast and was wondering how it fares against manufacturer packaged ones.
 

Ross

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I know I shouldn't bite, but a typical cheap snipe from Nev that shouldn't pass without an answer....

The original sachets are not packaged in an oxygen free enviroment, the original sachets are just flushed with gas just before filling & sealing. It's done for cheapness, not for the best health of the yeast. The dry yeast for commercial use comes vac packed not flushed. Danstar have recently upgraded their sachet packaging to vacuum sealing after concerns about the flush fill system.
I would suspect our repackaged yeast (from vac pac to vac pac) to be every bit as viable, if not better, than flush filled commercial sachets.

Yeast repackaged into an oxygen rich enviroment (ziplocks or the like) are another matter & I'd personally avoid, though quite a few brewers do it this way or just use continually from a 500gm pack & they report good results.

+++

Back to the original question... No need to build a starter using dry yeast if pitching the correct amount, personally I'd rather pitch 2 packets into a bigger wort than building a starter, but nothing wrong with building one if that's your preference to save money.

Cheers Ross
 

the_new_darren

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Danstar package their yeasts in a certified clean room and are not exposed to grain, other yeast strains and the environment all of which are likely to contaminate "re-packaged" yeasts.

I concur with Nev. Only buy dry yeast in original packages. Repackaged yeast IS less viable, is only slightly cheaper (except the re-packager makes a greater profit) and you run the risk of introducing contaminants.

tnd
 

Florian

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I know I shouldn't bite, but a typical cheap snipe from Nev that shouldn't pass without an answer....

The original sachets are not packaged in an oxygen free enviroment, the original sachets are just flushed with gas just before filling & sealing. It's done for cheapness, not for the best health of the yeast. The dry yeast for commercial use comes vac packed not flushed. Danstar have recently upgraded their sachet packaging to vacuum sealing after concerns about the flush fill system.
Cheers for the clarification, Ross.

That explains why fermentis also mentions not to use packs that have become soft. Found this on a spec sheet for commercial 500g packs of S-189 when looking up recommended re-hydration method.

I will continue to confidentially use re-packaged dry yeast.
 

Sunshine_Brewer

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I will continue to confidentially use re-packaged dry yeast.


Repackaged or not I have excellent results with dry yeast after properly re-hydrating them and NOT building a starter. Fresh yeast will never fail and fresh is what you get from a high turnover supplier.

Just used 44g of Notto onto 44L of Meantime IPA clone yesterday, re-hydrated in 440ml of 30degC water for 15min then stirred for 5-10 min then added wort 200ml at a time to the yeast until same temp as fermenter wort. It was going off after 6 hours. Fresh yeast mate, :icon_cheers:
 

Florian

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Danstar package their yeasts in a certified clean room and are not exposed to grain, other yeast strains and the environment all of which are likely to contaminate "re-packaged" yeasts.

I concur with Nev. Only buy dry yeast in original packages. Repackaged yeast IS less viable, is only slightly cheaper (except the re-packager makes a greater profit) and you run the risk of introducing contaminants.

tnd
Yes, in a perfect world we would all use original packages only, but have you ever tried buying an original, vac packed 12g satchel of S-189?
It simply doesn't exist!

Other retailers repack it into soft, non vac packed satchels and print the manufacturers recommendation underneath, which clearly states not to use soft packs.

I know which one I prefer.

Also, I fully trust that the guys at craftbrewer are smart enough not to repack yeast next to their grain mill.
 

Wimmig

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Hmm and here i was toying with the idea of using a stirplate for rehydrating dried yeast. Strikes me as a waste of time now :(
 

Joshisgood

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Thanks I'll have to go on the big computer. iPhone won't support the player apparently but cheers
No worries mate, you can get an app for iPhone called cloudbrowse which will run Mozilla on your phone from a remote server (or something like that) which will give you access to flash content. Only runs in 10 minute sessions unless you pay a subscription but should be long enough to do what you need
 

iralosavic

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I wish yeastcalc would allow for fourth and fifth starter steps to account for people who split liquid yeast packs. Three steps is not enough from 20ml in a 23L lager.
 

Camo1234

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I wish yeastcalc would allow for fourth and fifth starter steps to account for people who split liquid yeast packs. Three steps is not enough from 20ml in a 23L lager.
How many splits do you do of the packet? I have split mine in 4 so 25b Cells in each..... wouldn't 1 ltr then 1 ltr and then 2 ltr do the Job?

Not saying I am correct by any stretch of the imagination as this is my first time splitting a packet and building the starters.

Cheers Camo
 
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