Do You Filter Your Beer Through Fish?

[Millet Man]

What mate, the isinglass or diatomaceous earth?

MFS

The diatomaceous earth. Perlite can be used as a safer substitute.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[Beer Guy]

Can we assume that you are now polished up and back on deck at the MM?

Nope Vlad me and Mad Monk have parted ways. Currently I am peacefully brewing at a brewery in Margaret River untill I can hand the reins over to the new guy. I will probably pick up a little bit of brewing here and there on a Gun for hire basis. I am moving to Albany as soon as I find the right house to live in from there I will do something but what that is is still a year or so away as I need to take things easy for a while.

 

[ausdb]

Nope Vlad me and Mad Monk have parted ways. Currently I am peacefully brewing at a brewery in Margaret River untill I can hand the reins over to the new guy. I will probably pick up a little bit of brewing here and there on a Gun for hire basis. I am moving to Albany as soon as I find the right house to live in from there I will do something but what that is is still a year or so away as I need to take things easy for a while.

So have they actually found a new guy at that place?

 

[Beer Guy]

A month or so back starts in May some time.

 

[ausdb]

A month or so back starts in May some time.

It will be interesting to see how their beer goes when that happens, are you getting any "artistic license" at the moment?

 

[brendanos]

It will clear (...) chill haze really well

...the real reason the english are so fond of it!

Good to hear "that brewery" is in capable hands for the time being! Would we be familiar with "the new guy"'s work?

 

[mfdes]

Diatomaceous earth is possibly carcinogenic, though the jury is still out. It is made of silica = glass.
It will give you silicosis if you breath a lot of it, however. A lot of brands of kitty litter are made of diatomaceous earth.

Quote:
'Studies of the fibrogenic potential (silicosis) of diatomaceous earth provide conflicting evidence - some showing positive results and some showing negative. Since the criterion for establishing and reporting health hazards under the HCS is "evidence which is statistically significant and which is based on at least one positive study conducted in accordance with established scientific principles," information on the adverse health effects resulting from exposure must be reported on the label, and a discussion of the potential for silicosis must be included on the MSDS.'

I'd say it's one of those cases, like acetone, where the evidence is debatable and one has to go on the precautionary principle.

I use it, and will continue to use it, but I do take precautions such as wearing a dust mask. Breathing in excessive amounts of any aerosol is harmful.

Did you know you ingest diatomaceous earth every time you brush your teeth?

MFS.
MFS.

 

[Fents]

I do filter my beer through fish. Last week on my honeymoon i was fishing a estuary on the great ocean road. kicked over my beer right when i had this 1kg bream on about to pull it out of the water...Bottle hits fish and beer pours all over bream while its thrashing about. True story.

Gutted it and put it in the esky - which had beers in it too.

 

[Ross]

Isinglass Here is still the best naturally derived clarifying agent around.It will clear yeast and chill haze really well.Gelitine is about 2/3 less affective. PVPP is a vinyls product ,And IMHO less effective, so were do you go? Plastic or a natural agent. Some yeast will drop out readily if used properly if you pick the right one.I have used Isinglass many times and it is my choice if you want a clear beer.There are some new products coming on the market from Germany which will clarify and meet the German purity laws.It can be used in the kettle and the fermenter.Stay tuned.
GB

Interesting :unsure: ....

I thought that Isinglass was positively charged & worked by attracting & clumping together the negative yeast particles, whereas protein haze is positively charged & hence Isinglass had zero effect on it? PVPP & Isinglass from my understanding, are 2 different fining agents with 2 totally different applications.
I'd be interested in a link to the literature that substantiates your claims?


Cheers Ross

 

[mobrien]

Ross - this may or may not help... From "Principles of Brewing Science" by George Fix:

"[Chill] haze involves complexes of high-molecular-weight proteins and polyphenols (tanins). These compounds form weak, temperature-sensitive hydrogen bonds that are broken as the beer's temperature increases, allowing the resulting compounds to form a complex with water and go into solution."

My read of this: A hydrogen bond involves a slightly negative and slightly positive charge, so when not in the "haze" form (i.e. in two different molecules) one part has a slightly negative section that complexes with one side of the water molecule, and the other has a slightly positive section that complexes with other side of a water molecule (because water is polar). So if you add Isinglass (positive charged) it could possibly maybe complex with the negative charged big molecule (as well as yeast) so indeed clear chill haze and yeast.

That all said, I have never used it, and this is all my interpretation based on a bit of chemistry knowledge and the reference I quoted.

M

 

[Darren]

Interesting :unsure: ....

I thought that Isinglass was positively charged & worked by attracting & clumping together the negative yeast particles, whereas protein haze is positively charged & hence Isinglass had zero effect on it? PVPP & Isinglass from my understanding, are 2 different fining agents with 2 totally different applications.
I'd be interested in a link to the literature that substantiates your claims?


Cheers Ross

Hey Ross,

99% of all proteins are negatively charged especially at beer or wine pH. Most protein based fining agents work simply by non-specific aggregation of two different proteins. You could just about use any protein to clear a beer. Gelatin is used because it is readily available (waste product) and is cheap.

cheers

Darren

 

[blackbock]

Darren

Excuse the dumb question, but if protein-based fining agents can clear haze, why do people talk of protein haze?
I understood that excess proteins were undesirable. :unsure:

 

[Beer Guy]

:icon_offtopic: No artistic licence has been granted and I am brewing as per the previous brewers log's etc... which is fair to the incoming brewer I am bound by a confidentiality clause not to reveal the new brewers identity infact this post will self destruct in ............

 

[sathid]

Looks like they haven't made a lot of progress on the place. I went there again a short while back (and looked on their website). If you didn't know it, you'd be hard pressed to discover they are a brewery. Have to hunt for the beers on the menu. You'd think they would take pride of place...

It makes me sad to think what they could have done with that place...

 

[Darren]

Darren

Excuse the dumb question, but if protein-based fining agents can clear haze, why do people talk of protein haze?
I understood that excess proteins were undesirable. :unsure:

Hey Blackbock,

Not a dumb question. In your beer you only have a few main protein species. The are all closely related as they all came from the same organism (malt or yeast)

By simply adding a "foreign" protein such as egg white (ovalbumin) or gelatin to the mixture it establishes a chain reaction that binds all the different proteins together, they become larger on mass and fall from suspension.

Most of the problem associated with fining agents is public responses to which protein the brewer uses. Many people are allergic to egg white so that is out. Gelatin is generally made from animal carcasses so vego's won't go for that. See weed based (Carageneen or Irish Moss) satisfy both of the forementioned issues and is therefore widely adopted.

PVPP is probably more commomnly used than reported but again, who wants plastic in their beer??

BTW, I have used all of the above (except egg) to fine my beer. Usually I can't be bothered though.


cheers

Darren

 

[devo]

ahh i was about to ask what Irish moss was so thanks for including it in your explanation Darren.

 

[Beer Guy]

if you are talking about Monk they have lost the way a little but they have some beers in tank at the mo which the new brewer Justin has done should be worth waiting for. They have a whole beer menu dedicated to beer or at least they did last week.

 

[sathid]

Ahh good. They didn't the week before (just wines and beertails)

Still, a monastery-style alehouse would have been perfect in Freo.

 

[Beer Guy]

I wanted to go Belgian , board was frightend so now they will roll out the usual suspects porters, pale ales wheat beer etc.....

 

[faryg]

Good to hear "that brewery" is in capable hands for the time being! Would we be familiar with "the new guy"'s work?
[/quote]

"He wouldn't have brewed for Sail and Anchor and Matso's and his initials wouldn't be MS would it?"