Dme Dilema

[Asher]

Howdy All

I usually use 'Muntons extra light Spraymalt' (DME) to make my starters. I get it from a dodgy homebrew shop close by.... Its the only thing they have that I'd buy (I should have seen this coming a mile away!). They don't stock grains or much liquid yeast. and hops still hang on the wall! My preferred shop is 'TWOC Homebrew Supplies" for everything usually but its a 30min drive one way...

Anyway I went to buy some 'Muntons Spraymalt' and guess what! they didn't have any in stock so I walked out with an un-branded bag of DME. I was making a split batch with two yeasts so I made up a couple of starters and pitched the yeast into them. I took of as predicted, but no Krausen foam. I ramped up and again no Krausen foam. Plenty of CO2 bubbles, just no head on either!

On brew day I pitched the whole 1.5 litre starters into 20 litres of All Grain Wort. The beers took off within 12 hours and a small Krausen was observed, but again, this has disappeared after a day but fermentation continues strongly. I can see the bubbled hitting the surface and popping...

The only thing I've changed is the brand of DME..
The same lack of Krausen foam has been observed in both fermentors with different yeasts. (A Kolsch & London Ale yeast)
Has anyone heard of this or seen this before? I'm assuming its this new DME that has caused the lack of foam. I know not all DME's are alike. some are more fermentable than others, but this is just weird! I'm not sure If this will affect the head retention of the beer once carbonated.... will let you know

Anyone?

Asher for now

 

[Guest Lurker]

Similar but maybe not the same thing. I am currently brewing a version of Jayses Demon Ale, 1.070, all grain, using 1272 American Ale 2 which is a true pasty top cropper. Also doing a ginger beer for the Mrs, Grumpys ginger beer kit with GMKs ginger beer bits thrown in. The Grumpys kit had 1.5 kg of LME and a bag with plenty of DME. I doubled the size of the starter and pitched 1272 to both at the same time.

The Demon is 23 l in a 30 l fermenter, and the yeast has almost climbed out, about 5 inches of incredibly thick pasty barm. Beside it, the ginger beer is actively bubbling, but no yeast head, not even a drop of froth. Something is completely killing the yeast build up. Both are fermenting OK. I actually opened the ginger beer and went looking for the yeast, scooped it off the bottom, a thick, creamy, ropey deposit.

With all the DME and LME in the ginger beer, why couldnt the yeast develop a head at the top?

 

[Weizguy]

so I walked out with an un-branded bag of DME.

[post="51860"][/post]​

So, the DME seems to ferment but not hold a head? :angry:

R U sure that no-one has tainted your starter vessels with detergent? That's a good cause of head loss.

Is it worth reporting to the hbs? Is it possibly a DME blend (unlabelled)? I was thinking that if it's principally dextrose...hmmm?
Depends if U bought a large bag or box of DME, or just some smaller repackaged amounts?

I have used cheap(er) DME and it's fine. It was Bintani, but have been purchasing Muntons by the boxful for the last few 25kg boxes, including wheat DME.

I'd talk to the lhbs, and if no satisfaction advise that U will be going elsewhere.

Seth :chug:

 

[bonk]

Asher,

sounds like the stuff i've been using, bubbles like crazy but no other sign of fermenting/activation. might have to order up some good stuff and see if it makes a difference.

 

[jaytee]

I had the exact same problem with my starter as Asher

Local shop has Muntons LME repackaged with a photcopied label on it.

The starter produced plenty of co2, plenty of activity in the wort, but no krausen.

Once pitched it took off fine though - W1968

 

[Goat]

I might be way off here, but assuming (mistake No. 1) Krausen basically bubbles of CO2 caught in a wort/yeast/trub material forming the film of each bubble, the resiliance of which controls the amount of foam. So based on that, I would have thought that it is the proteins etc in the wort which would to a large degree control the foam rather than what it does to the yeast. The result being similar head-retention in a glass of the finished product.

On another tangent, is the DME you used the really powedery stuff or was it slightly granular? I find the powdery stuff a lot more difficult to dissolve

 

[deebee]

[/quote]
Is it worth reporting to the hbs?

[post="51883"][/post]​

[/quote]


:lol:
:lol:
:lol:
Sorry about laughing, but I think I know where Asher bought it and you can report all you like to this hbs and he will think of some snippy, arrogant pig of a way to tell you how little he cares about where you stick your DME.

Asher, I have noticed that my starters with Bintani DME (from 20kg bags) tend to suffer the same symptom. I don't think it makes a difference. You still get a nice thick layer of yeast dropping out when it settles.

Next time you need a kg of DME bring some tupperware round and dip into my bulk bag. Only shop there if you NEED to.

 

[Asher]

The result being similar head-retention in a glass of the finished product

Thats what I'm afraid og goat! (twas to be my Paddle beer too!)

It was the crystally stuff... not the powdery stuff (Muntons is the powdery one) Also noted the starter wort was allot darker at the same OG.. (I'd say a 6EBC for the no name stuff compared to a 4 for the Muntons)

Good to see others experiencing the same phenomenon..

I'll be chucking the rest of the pack and returning to Muntons....
Otherwise I'm going to get a tin of coopers malt and pour it into 50g bags and freeze them for starter use......

Asher for now

 

[Hoops]

On brew day I pitched the whole 1.5 litre starters into 20 litres of All Grain Wort. The beers took off within 12 hours and a small Krausen was observed, but again, this has disappeared after a day but fermentation continues strongly. I can see the bubbled hitting the surface and popping...

[post="51860"][/post]​

OMG I have the exact same thing happening now. I pitched 1056 into a starter last night and it has no Krausen at all either although I have given it heaps of oxygenation (and maticulous steralizing and sanitizing). I was starting to get worried I might have killed it but this thread is a little reassuring. Even when I aerate the wort it doesn't seem to create much froth - nowhere near as much as aerating the AG wort.
The starter seems to have a fair but of slurry in the bottom so i will step it up tonight and see what happens.

Hoops

 

[Hoops]

I think next brew day I will make an extra couple of litres and bottle some (pressure cooker & canning jars) just for peace of mind

 

[Backlane Brewery]

Sorry, Hoops- are you talking about saving some unpitched wort (forget the tech. term) from your next brew to use as a starter, or just saving some of the starter you have now?

 

[Hoops]

Yeah, basically take 2L from the fermenter (before adding yeast) then steralize in a pressure cooker in canning jars so it's a ready-to-go starter for next brew day.
Edit - rather than using what seems to be inferior DME

 

[Asher]

Hoops

What if your making a German Lager after a Stout

 

[Hoops]

Hmmm <_<
I'm either up SH*T creek without a paddle....or maybe do a minimash :lol:

 

[Ross]

I've had massivly different krausens with the same brews with the same yeasts - but the end product, which is all that matters, surely, has been fine everytime. Could be down to how well you rinsed the fermenter/starter bottle out before you used it - Does it really matter? - Has anyone ended up with a lesser beeer after observing this? - I don't think so...

 

[Asher]

Will post back here when I carbonate some up and comment on head retention...

Now best get to work on a good label for the Paddle comp....

Asher for now