Dispensing Commercial Kegs

[GrainStain]

Hi all,

I am in desperate need of assistance with dispensing commercial kegs. I am catering beer for an engagement party tomorrow and have not yet been able to pour beer without more than 50% foam.

I have two fridges. One is setup to dispense my homebrew from Cornys, the other to dispense commercials. The commercial beer is Hahn Superdry. I have independent gas to each fridge via a dual gauge reg.

Homebrew fridge is set at my standard 3.5 degrees C at 80 Kpa and is pouring fine. Commercial beer fridge is set at 3.5 degrees C and two kegs have been sitting at 3.5 degrees C for nearly a week.

I am using a micromatic keg coupler with Keg King Cornelius Type Ball Lock Post fittings fro the commercials. I initially had 2 metres of 5mm ID beer line attached and have since swapped this out with 6 metres of 5mm ID line, both Valpar Flexmaster.

I am using a Keg King flow restrictor tap and have tried both the supplied barbed fitting, as well as a keg king quick disconnect type fitting.

I am assuming SuperDry comes at approx. 2.5 volumes of C02 and for 3.5 degrees C decided to start at 100Kpa dispensing pressure. I have also tried 80Kpa, 150Kpa, 200Kpa and 250Kpa (which blew my beer ling off the barbed fitting). I am using 4mm ID line for gas to the commercials.

Do any of you have any experience dispensing commercial beer through your standard home brew rig that can offer any assistance on gas pressure and beer line length that worked?

I apologise as I am sue this topic has been posted many times before but I have 160 people to cater for tomorrow and cannot spare time to search through the forums. Very stressed man

Any feedback on previous experience or suggestions will be very much appreciated.

Cheers,
Tony

 

[donburke]

Hi all,

I am in desperate need of assistance with dispensing commercial kegs. I am catering beer for an engagement party tomorrow and have not yet been able to pour beer without more than 50% foam.

I have two fridges. One is setup to dispense my homebrew from Corny's, the other to dispense commercials. The commercial beer is Hahn Superdry. I have independent gas to each fridge via a dual gauge reg.

Homebrew fridge is set at my standard 3.5 degrees C at 80 Kpa and is pouring fine. Commercial beer fridge is set at 3.5 degrees C and two kegs have been sitting at 3.5 degrees C for nearly a week.

I am using a micromatic keg coupler with Keg King Cornelius Type Ball Lock Post fittings fro the commercials. I initially had 2 metres of 5mm ID beer line attached and have since swapped this out with 6 metres of 5mm ID line, both Valpar Flexmaster.

I am using a Keg King flow restrictor tap and have tried both the supplied barbed fitting, as well as a keg king quick disconnect type fitting.

I am assuming SuperDry comes at approx. 2.5 volumes of C02 and for 3.5 degrees C decided to start at 100Kpa dispensing pressure. I have also tried 80Kpa, 150Kpa, 200Kpa and 250Kpa (which blew my beer ling off the barbed fitting). I am using 4mm ID line for gas to the commercials.

Do any of you have any experience dispensing commercial beer through your standard home brew rig that can offer any assistance on gas pressure and beer line length that worked?

I apologise as I am sue this topic has been posted many times before but I have 160 people to cater for tomorrow and cannot spare time to search through the forums. Very stressed man

Any feedback on previous experience or suggestions will be very much appreciated.

Cheers,
Tony

is the beer line in the fridge or outside ? what about tap / font ? possibly warm lines/tap

how long between pours ?

did you have the gas on the keg before trying to pour today ? possibly absorbing more gas

how sure are you the keg is at 3.5 deg ?

 

[Adam Howard]

Have you tried turning the gas off completely and pulling a beer?

 

[dkaos]

Could the OP have over carbed it? Obviously it comes precarbed from the brewery, but by leaving it on at too high a pressure it might have happened.

 

[Adam Howard]

Could the OP have over carbed it? Obviously it comes precarbed from the brewery, but by leaving it on at too high a pressure it might have happened.

Going to all the different serving pressures without burping the keg after each one would put a fair chunk of gas in the headspace which would bump up the carb.

 

[Batz]

it's not going to help but i think your in the ****.


That happens.

batz

 

[GrainStain]

Hey all,
Thanks for the help
Keg is in fridge, lines are in fridge, long shank tap comes through side of fridge.
Keg has been resting without gas for a week prior to attaching coupler tonight. As gas has not been connected, there is no issue with over carb unless keg has come over carbed which is unlikely as I got them from local trusted hotel.
I have not tried disconnecting gas of completely and then trying to pour, will try this next.
Batz, thanks mate. Does not help 
Has anyone done commercial from home that can offer pressure and line length baselines for me to start from?
Cheers,
Tony

 

[GrainStain]

That was a smiley face Batz

 

[Wimmig]

If you can't get it happy without any additional C02 (considering it's already got a fair whack from the brewery) and you have checked your lines, i think you have major problems. Is there any air gaps in the system, like a tap seal? Does the commerical keg coupler liquid line float / valve have all of it's seals intact? It's not the sort of thing you would want to leave to last moment...

 

[GrainStain]

Thanks Wimmig,

tap seal does concern me as I have never used these taps before, only Celli tap in the past.

That (apart from the commercial keg) is all that has changed.

Does anyone know if it is possible to burp a commercial key with standard D type coupler?

 

[GrainStain]

Anyone with experience to sort this out that can come to Grange tomorrow is welcome to the all the free beer they can drink.

Obviously my APA's and IPA's will be the flavour of the day until we can sort out swill for the masses.

 

[Adam Howard]

I have also tried 80Kpa, 150Kpa, 200Kpa and 250Kpa (which blew my beer ling off the barbed fitting). I am using 4mm ID line for gas to the commercials.

Did you try these pressures on the commercial keg or what?

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Here's a punt, you are way under the keg carb rate and gass is breaking out of suspension. Increase you line length drastically and keep a high dispense pressure up. Long line and high pressure may see you out of the ****.
If possible ask your local pub what they dispense at, yours will be different but they may give you a lead.
Nev

 

[Wolfy]

I've only dispensed commercial kegs through a glycol chiller, so the total line length would have been longer than what you are dealing with.
However, adjusting the CO2 pressure (from memory we were running it lower than 80kpa) was the most usual way to control the pour, so give that a try, also try it without any CO2 pressure at all, and only adjust it up when it stops pouring.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Another thing, has the keg coupler still got its anti return float in the out tube ? If its missing it can/will cause gas break out.
Nev

 

[GrainStain]

Hey all,

I have removed the non return ball valve in the keg coupler.

I can double the line length, but to do this I need to use an in line joiner.

Do you think this would cause turbulence issues?

 

[mckenry]

Hey all,

I have removed the non return ball valve in the keg coupler.

I can double the line length, but to do this I need to use an in line joiner.

Do you think this would cause turbulence issues?

Have you tried pouring more than just one beer? When I worked at pubs, changing kegs often meant the first litre or two were wasted until the flow 'came good' Grab a bucket and let it run for a while. See how that goes, if you havent already tried it.

Otherwise, the beer will settle in a jug. Pour jugs and serve from them at the function.

 

[Ross]

Not sure why people are telling you to increase line length, as there is no point increasing line length when using a flow control tap.

Have a look at the beer line while you are pouring, if you see bubbles in the line keep increasing the pouring pressure until they stop & you only see beer in the lines.
Hopefully now you'll now be able to pour a beer. If you can't, unfortunately it's most likely your tap, as the Chinese taps suffer a little on the quality stakes.
Your only other option then would be to go & grab yourself a hand gun or bronco tap & use instead of the tap.

hope this helps

Cheers Ross

 

[mikk]

Just my 2c worth, but can you see gas bubbles in the liquid dispensing line to the tap? the pressure drop over 6m of line would be quite significant, & may cause some co2 to come out of solution.

If it was me, i'd try to keep it simple to rule out what could be causing the problem.

*Reduce the gas pressure in the keg down to zero, then increase it slowly whilst pouring a beer til you get to a good/normal flow rate. Does it still pour super-heady?
*If so, check for gas in the liquid out line. If there's gas there, either your dispensing pressure is too low, the line length is too long, or the beer was overcarbed.
*Do you have a pluto gun or similar? If so, connect this directly to the keg outlet. Assuming the pluto gun's line length is normal (2m?), if the pour is still **** then you can rule out the dispensing side of things.
*Is it just the 1st beer you pour that's too heady, & subsequent beers, if poured immediately after the first, are not too bad? If so, then that's a gas pressure or line length or beer line temp/tap temp issue.

You've obviously got some kegging experience, so don't try to overthink stuff just cos it's commercial keg! Keep it simple, keep things the same as you normally would.
Finally, why did you change the line length/diameter? Was it before this problem started, or after, to try & fix the problem?

If you don't have much luck getting things sorted, maybe try varying your serving procedure- ie, rather than getting people to pour their own beers & ending up with a glass of foam every time, just supply a few beer jugs instead. Fill a few jugs at once, & people can help themselves to these. If there's a few jugs on the go at any one time, i imagine it would be pretty easy to just keep these in rotation. ie, pour a few full jugs, let them settle, fill them a bit more (either from the tap or another jug), then serve them out. People might not even realise there is/was a problem.

Keep it simple- i reckon you can sort things out before your party.

 

[mikk]

One more thing, how is the beer after it's poured? Apart from having too much head, does it taste flat? Does it taste overcarbed? Does it look like there's the right amount of carbonation with regards to the number of bubbles?