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Diacetyl

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Batz

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Anyone ever had this Diacetyl , buttery , pop-corn thingy?
 

Gout

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note sure, i need to taste a beer and someone say ... thats diacetyl.

I have had caramal like flavours in some of my beers, normally when i use Kit plus all Liquid malt extract (1.5Kg) not all the time, i thought it was just not quite all fermented out....

its had to go one someones descriptions as everything tastes different to each person.......

except Fuggles YUCK there yuck to everyone ... with taste hehe aint that right Ken (GMK) too green and mellow for me
 

Justin

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Strange you should mention it. I think I may have in a Morgans Amber Ale + DME I put down a while back (actually quite a while). But I'm still unsure as to whether it was a diacetyl taste or not. Definetly something amiss in that brew but nothing to stop it being an enjoyable beverage.

When I did my first lager recently I was paranoid about the diacetyl, not detectable in the final brew even though I spiked the temp up for a day to get the sucker bubbling (I was a bit worried about my yeast count, I'm a worrisome lad :rolleyes: )

But still unsure if I've ever really had/tasted it.

JD
 

Batz

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We I think I had it in my last lager , tasted of honeycombe to me , I drank it all as it was not unpleasent , just wrong.
How do you stop this , I never had it before :blink:
 

PostModern

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Give your lager a diacetyl rest before you lager it. ie, let it rise up to about 15C for a day before cold conditioning. Palmer covers this in chapter 10.

Diacetyl is OK in some beer styles and "buttery" wine is often praised!
 

Batz

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I have also heard this does not work , will read Palmers book tonight , If I can fit in in my busy nightshift :D
 

PostModern

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I don't brew many lagers, so I can't say if the rest alone will work. There are techniques for reducing the amount of diacetyl produced as well letting the yeast eat up its mess too. Let us know what you find. I might be putting on another doppelbock next winter.
 

big d

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im also led to believe that during the yeast respiration cycle the type of yeast produces among other things by product flavour characteristics among them being diacetyl.eg butterscotch flavours.
the brew in question batz may have been brewed at a higher temperature which increases the risk of undesirable flavours such as butterscotch taste(diacetyl)

i havent come across it yet but have recently experienced a few brews that just didnt seem right.i have since moved my fermenters to a way cooler place in the house that have better temp control.
the new year will prove if i have succeeded

cheers
big d
 

Batz

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This one was brewed in my temp. control fridge at 6c
The starting temperture may have been high ( before it was placed in the fridge)
Oh well have to see if it raises it's head again , never had it before
 

joecast

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the first pilsner kit i tried a few months back has a very strong buttery taste. i am 99% sure its diacetyl so if anyone isnt sure, come on by and you can try some. sorry, but i wont be having it with you....
pretty sure i just fermented a bit too warm as at the time i didnt really understand the whole "lagers ferment at cooler temp" thing. oh well, at least i learned something...stick to ales.
joe
 
J

Jovial_Monk

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Yes the lager needs to be warmed up a bit before racking. Excessive aeration also seems to cause diacetyl, beers brewed with Yorkshire Stone Squares seem to have it.

That is one reason an ale should sit in primary for two weeks: the yeast cake will clean up the diacetyl and other faults. Since in summer the temperatures may be too hot to allow this (autolysis is a danger in summer) summer brews may have some diacetyl.

For hot weather brewing I suggest dropping (racking off the yeast with some aeration) at day two then bottling at day 7.




Jovial Monk
 

Trough Lolly

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Jovial_Monk said:
Yes the lager needs to be warmed up a bit before racking. Excessive aeration also seems to cause diacetyl, beers brewed with Yorkshire Stone Squares seem to have it.

That is one reason an ale should sit in primary for two weeks: the yeast cake will clean up the diacetyl and other faults. Since in summer the temperatures may be too hot to allow this (autolysis is a danger in summer) summer brews may have some diacetyl.

For hot weather brewing I suggest dropping (racking off the yeast with some aeration) at day two then bottling at day 7.




Jovial Monk
As a Lager Brewer, may I humbly suggest an amendment to JM's post (quoted above)...

Yes to primary ferment the Lager at a low temp with a good quality Lager yeast...

BUT

Don't rush the Lager!

Give it a week in primary (at least). Don't rush it!

Rack to secondary and cold condition for at least 3 weeks (no higher than 8C) Don't rush it!

If you drop and bottle within a week, you get a very green lager that takes a long time to condition in the bottle. Lagers prefer to cold condition in bulk - as the Germans did! Leave them in secondary fermentation where the good quality yeast that's still in suspension can get to work on conditioning the more complex fermentables in the Lager, without increasing autolysis risk that would occur if it was left in higher temp primary on the yeast cake.

As for aeration after Primary fermentation - Good Luck! :blink: I don't want to get into a "how and why we should drop worts" argument, but I have never done that and my lagers are well received by all who drink them! :D

Palmers chapter on Lagers is a good reference, but I tend to get better results by not stuffing around with the wort - it's like any champion product - the more you mess with it, the more likely you will not achieve what you originally wanted.

Just keep the temps down, use good yeast and diacetyl rest if necessary, but most of all - be patient!

Ein beer bitte!


TL
 

PostModern

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TL,
I think the JM was talking about summer brewing ales.
Cheers,
PM
 

Batz

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My lagers are no where near comming out of primary within a week !
They ferment away slowly for 3 weeks plus in primary
 

Trough Lolly

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PostModern said:
TL,
I think the JM was talking about summer brewing ales.
Cheers,
PM
:blink: D'OH!

Sorry to get passionate about Lagers!!

JM - I apologise if I appeared a bit feral! I should have read the context before launching into a blurb that didn't need restating! ;)

Now that I've re-read the thread, I see what JM's on about. Mind you, this "dropping" caper is a bit of a South Australian thing isn't it?

I saw it start a bit of an email war on another forum - nothing to get too grumpy about though!! :p

Cheers,

TL
 

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