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Decypher A Flavour Help

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wedge

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Ok,

so i am getting a flavour(s) in quite a few of my beers. It is not apparent in the heavier beers but is in the my lighter beers.

It is also made worst by the fact that I have been using Saflager as a yeast as I had a budget deficit problem which seems to be just yaaah!

The flavour is slightly sour, not sweet of buttery. It is not bad and most friends who dont know better cant taste it..........but i can and it really bugs me.

I think it might be astringent flavour but I cant really see where I can be causing this, i dont oversparge and my temp control is really good. :(

Has anyone got any ideas? Could it be the shit water in adelaide? If so has anyone any recommendations for a good water chemistry book?
 

beerbog

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Ok,

so i am getting a flavour(s) in quite a few of my beers. It is not apparent in the heavier beers but is in the my lighter beers.

It is also made worst by the fact that I have been using Saflager as a yeast as I had a budget deficit problem which seems to be just yaaah!

The flavour is slightly sour, not sweet of buttery. It is not bad and most friends who dont know better cant taste it..........but i can and it really bugs me.

I think it might be astringent flavour but I cant really see where I can be causing this, i dont oversparge and my temp control is really good. :(

Has anyone got any ideas? Could it be the shit water in adelaide? If so has anyone any recommendations for a good water chemistry book?
What temp are you fermenting at? :beerbang:
 

brettprevans

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most of the sour flavours are infection related

check for infection. thoughourly clean everything.
Don't mash for long periods of time at low temperatures (if your AG).
are you pitching enough yeast? so lagers you'd want to packets of dry yeast for around 20L batch

is is sour or sharper like green apples? if its green apple then its acetaldehyde

if its sour as in vinagery - Check for infection.Check for oxidation sources (acetobacter is aerobic).

edit: common faults link. just some really basic info. theres plenty around on faults.
Palmer - common problems
- common off flavours

edit2: darker and/or heavier beers can hide a multitude of sins. thats the reason why they suggest doing darker/heavier beers when beginning AG as theres less to hide faults behind in lighter beers.
 

np1962

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Adelaide water is actually pretty good for brewing although a little added calcium doesn't go astray.
I agree with CM2, while you are having a little trouble describing the precise flavour it does seem more like an infection issue.
Cheers
Nige
 

np1962

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Wedge,
If you are interested there is a local forum for Adelaide brewers at Brew Adelaide.
There is a good group forming with loads of experienced brewers and a number who have just undertaken their BJCP judging exam.
One of the initiatives Goofinder/Dan has started is a tasting group where once a month or so we meet to taste and discuss members beers and make suggestions for improvement etc..
Thread for this months meeting is HERE
Cheers
Nige

Edit:- CM2, interested in your comment regards long mash at low temp, can you expand?
 

wedge

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This link is great! http://www.bjcp.org/faults.php

I think it might be Acetaldehyde? But only slightly. The flavour is not strong or unpleasant but it is something that should not be there. I think it might only be the slightest amount of Acetaldehyde.

Its been a while since I brewed and both beers I kegged within a week of finishing. I wonder if I just need to age it a bit longer?

I bottle some of the first brew so I might wait another week and will open.
 

brettprevans

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Edit:- CM2, interested in your comment regards long mash at low temp, can you expand?
ok ill admit to copying and pasting that part without thinking too much about it.... however it should be to do witrh

infection of the mash with butyric bacteria occuring from long low mash temps or that during a long mash with lower temps that are more condusive to bactiral growth in an envrionment with lots of sugars, any sort of bugs can take a hold and start to go nuts. note that i think butyric occurs in a pH of leww than 3.5 from memory. in a long mash (now im talking more than an hour unless the pH is really low), it gives more time for bacteria to grow and more off flavours to develop.

in berlinners etc you can leave a mash a while to help develop lactic production prior to boil.

so im pretty sure this probably isnt the case and probably should have put more info about why i made the suggesion about this being a possible casue.
 

np1962

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Thanks mate, good explanation.
Would think that is generally not going to be a problem without the extreme low ph as you say.
Leaning toward 75 to 90 min mashes when mashing at sacch. temps lower than 65C to increase efficiency on my system and you had me thinking.
Slightly extending the mash at these temps shouldn't be a problem in a normal mash and allows for the longer time needed for gelatinisation of the mash therefore increasing extraction.
Cheers
Nige
 
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