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brettprevans

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Winter experiment #1 - dark.cider

Following on from last years successful dark 'from scratch chilli ginger beer' im going to brewa dark cider for fun

10L apple juice
8L apple blackcurrent juice
3L pear juice
1kg or 2kg dark brown sugar
850ml treacle

Now yeast selection is my last decision. Thinki.g s189 swiss yeast (think swartzbier) or us05. Not using champ yeast for this as it will go too low.

Goes down tomorrow night.

Edit: decided against throwing prune juice in for those pluby notes, but I can always change my mind ss it would go into secondary anyway
 

troopa

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Really looking forward to knowing how all this ends up
Think this is going to be on my list of bottle ciders to except the blackcurrent... you will have to let us know how it goes
 

brettprevans

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.....decided against throwing prune juice in for those pluby notes.....
whoops I meant plum notes

also forgot to mention that sugars (incl treacle) will be gradualluy added over a period of 1-2 weeks. I find cider throws a lot of off flavours if its a vigerous ferment. So I treat it like a belgian and gradually add sugars

decided to use s189 (if it fires as its a little old).
 

AndrewQLD

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That's a lot of treacle, you don't think it will be a bit overpowering?
 

brettprevans

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That's a lot of treacle, you don't think it will be a bit overpowering?
maybe. another reason why I was going to add bit by bit and test it as I go. I prob wshould have been clearer about that.

I will admit that I was basing it off a stout recipe. perhaps I will add some prune juice and cut back on the treacle.

cheers


edit: I should add (before someone potentially posts the suggestion) that I had considered adding dark malt, but considering the results so far (from others report backs) is that adding malt to cider hasnt been highly successful I decided to give it a miss.

Once its made and Ive tasted it I'll have a better idea of what needs to change. I may be able to alter it slighly in the keg as well if needed. Ive modded ciders before in the keg (eg, added lactose, honey etc as needed)
 

brettprevans

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S189 didnt fire, so good old us05.

Smells good. added 3/4 of brown sugar over the week. Just added half container of golden syrup. Apparently I bought golden syrup not treacle :( . Oh well some pureed tinned plums will def go in for colour now.
 

brettprevans

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Kegged the batch last night. Held off on the plums as I think the colour is. Could be darker but I cbf waiting any longer. will take a pic once carbed as I forgot to do so last night.

Taste - good dark.sugar notes reminicent of a golden.strong or dubble. Actually it reminded me of the plum braggot ive got ageing. Finishes with solid cider notes (fruit and acid). Some of that should softrn with cold conditioning and age. I did taste it whilst about 20C as I had it warm to make sure fermentation had def finished.
 

eviljesus

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Thanks for posting this cm. I am going to have a crack at this one in the next week.

I'll be standing by on the photos for this one.

Would you recommend going the S189 or just stick with the US05?
 

brettprevans

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Thanks for posting this cm. I am going to have a crack at this one in the next week.

I'll be standing by on the photos for this one.

Would you recommend going the S189 or just stick with the US05?
Not sure. S189 was just a though to assist in smoothing tge cider out. It prob makes no differance. Was just part of the experiment of diff yeasts on ciders.

UsO5 will be fine
 

eviljesus

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Not sure. S189 was just a though to assist in smoothing tge cider out. It prob makes no differance. Was just part of the experiment of diff yeasts on ciders.

UsO5 will be fine
Excellent. I've got a US05 ready to roll.

At what stages did you add put the additional sugar in? A few hundred grams per day? Or just a 3-4 large groups. What was the final amount of the brown sugar you put in? in any specific increments?
 

brettprevans

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Excellent. I've got a US05 ready to roll.

At what stages did you add put the additional sugar in? A few hundred grams per day? Or just a 3-4 large groups. What was the final amount of the brown sugar you put in? in any specific increments?
1kg total. Spread over about a week. Just any old amounts bit by bit. Its just gradual.feeding. U could probably do it in 3 amounts. Mostly likely it was overkill in method. I just didnt want hot alc as there isnt much to hid behind in cider. Its a pretty light flavour profile and will show faults easily.
 

brettprevans

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citra keg blew last night so i dipped into this even though its only be in the keg carbing for 2 days.

very nice! will be great once it clears and cold conditions a little. but has some residual sweetness whilst still being a dry cider. just enough 'golden sugar' notes to contrast the acidity. pretty happy with this.

I think AndrewQLD was right about not adding all the treacle/golden syrup. Although I'd liike to see how much you could push it before it became unpalatable. might be a good method for introducing sweetness/perceived sweetness for those wanting a sweeter cider without using lactose etc.

as promised i will post a pic once its cleared and carbed.
 

brettprevans

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couldnt help myself and had another pint last night. (I havent taken a pic yet as it hasnt dropped clear)

its not overly dark i must say. its about as dark as an amber ale. so if you wanted darker prune/plum juice would be the way to go, or if so inclined cold steep (then boil) some carafaIII or black patent malt. that will fix it.

colour aside, the taste is great. its certainly got some sweetness but not a sweet sweetness if you get my drift. lovely rounded flavours that still end in that cider taste. a great winter cider IMO. Ill give Brendo, Maple etc a taste and they can review it. I bought a couple bottles to work for my staff to try. will report back on what they think.
 

evildrakey

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Watch the treacle addition... Too much give a very salty harsh taste... And a laxative effect...

However, if you are going to use treacle who not use the best...
The Wymsey Treacle Mine has been mining it since 66AD and it's by far the best treacle out there for brewing ;)

http://www.wymsey.co.uk/wymsey/treacle.htm
 

brettprevans

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Watch the treacle addition... Too much give a very salty harsh taste... And a laxative effect...

However, if you are going to use treacle who not use the best...
The Wymsey Treacle Mine has been mining it since 66AD and it's by far the best treacle out there for brewing ;)

http://www.wymsey.co.uk/wymsey/treacle.htm
sorry dude but what are you going on about. ive finished fermenting and am drinking it. why would i be adding treacle now? also my above post indicate that i ended up using golden syrup not treacle. i purchasing mistake on my behalf.

the old treacle mining british joke huh?
 

brettprevans

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Kegs getting a little empty, so time to do a variation as this was very tasty.

the yeast cake from this had a 'from scratch ginger beer' thrown on it. The GB was quite potent in ginger dark sugars and citrus so im throwing straight onto the dregs (yeastcake plus about 700ml of GB) the same recipe as above but I will add some sort of fruit and some lemongrass to secondary.

Not sure.what fruit yet. I could add some.pomegranate syrup I have and that would be interesting with the GB flavours. Not sure about plums and GB and lemongrass. Of course I could go Asian and throw southeast Asian fruits in there (think Thai etc) but those fruits are expensive.

Will report back when on I decide on which fruit. Juice was pitched onto yeastcake 2 days ago
 

grantsglutenfreehomebrew

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Gday guys. Got some inspiration from this post & made a apple & pear cider with 450g of treacle. I also roasted about 2 kg of royal gala apples to get the dark caramelised sugars and boiled in 3l of apple/pear juice. Add to fermenter after straining. All up 21l of juice. Colour is a lovely deep ruby red. Primed 1.25l soft drink bottles with 30ml of pear juice. Will let you know how it turns out in a month. Looking forward to it. Pictures are on my facebook page. Just look up grantsglutenfreehomebrew.
 

brettprevans

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Good idea re roasting the apples. Will have to do that next time.
 

evildrakey

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Yeah - I'll have to give that a try too...

The current batch of cider's rather dark looking, but that's due to the 1kg of Raspberries I added...
 

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