Cyser (first Brew).

[kenour]

Hi All,

I'm Ken, and... I have a problem. I'm a hobbyholic, and it looks like I've just gone and gotten myself another one

I have a few fruit tree's and a couple of bee hives on my property, and am always looking for new ways to preserve/use my produce.

Two weeks ago my friend around the corner was given a cider press by his father... So, we thought sure, lets make cider.

After a bit of research on the old Internet and quickly absorbing the basic principles I dove right on in (as I usual do)...

I decided I would make a cyser with mine due to an abundance of honey (I'll be making mead next!).

So, last weekend we pressed 4 x 40lt tubs or various apple varieties and 1 x 40lt tub of pears. We ended up with 40lt of juice that we split.

I extracted honey from one if my hives the weekend before and decided to add 2.5lt to my 20lt of juice and whacked it all in a 25lt fermenter with some SN9 yeast.

OG was 1.094 and is now 1.040, I had a cheeky taste after measuring the SG and apart from the slight sulphur tang, it's quite nice!

So, I'm wondering what to do now. I think keeping it about 7% ABV would be nice, keep some sweetness etc. Has a nice honey finish and a creamy mouthfeel, maybe a touch sweet, may let it go to 8%ish? I'm just not sure how to proceed.

I have some ideas, but would like to know what people with more than a weeks experience would do at this stage?

I understand that whacking it in the fridge stalls fermentation, but also want it carbonated when bottled.

Then there's all that racking and clearing stuff I hear so much about So, little help anyone?

Cheers,

Ken.

 

[Airgead]

Hi All,

I'm Ken, and... I have a problem. I'm a hobbyholic, and it looks like I've just gone and gotten myself another one

I have a few fruit tree's and a couple of bee hives on my property, and am always looking for new ways to preserve/use my produce.

Two weeks ago my friend around the corner was given a cider press by his father... So, we thought sure, lets make cider.

After a bit of research on the old Internet and quickly absorbing the basic principles I dove right on in (as I usual do)...

I decided I would make a cyser with mine due to an abundance of honey (I'll be making mead next!).

So, last weekend we pressed 4 x 40lt tubs or various apple varieties and 1 x 40lt tub of pears. We ended up with 40lt of juice that we split.

I extracted honey from one if my hives the weekend before and decided to add 2.5lt to my 20lt of juice and whacked it all in a 25lt fermenter with some SN9 yeast.

OG was 1.094 and is now 1.040, I had a cheeky taste after measuring the SG and apart from the slight sulphur tang, it's quite nice!

So, I'm wondering what to do now. I think keeping it about 7% ABV would be nice, keep some sweetness etc. Has a nice honey finish and a creamy mouthfeel, maybe a touch sweet, may let it go to 8%ish? I'm just not sure how to proceed.

I have some ideas, but would like to know what people with more than a weeks experience would do at this stage?

I understand that whacking it in the fridge stalls fermentation, but also want it carbonated when bottled.

Then there's all that racking and clearing stuff I hear so much about So, little help anyone?

Cheers,

Ken.

Hi Ken

Unfortunately, the place to decide how strong you want the brew is before you add the yeast. There are ways of stopping fermentation early but I wouldn't call any of them 100% reliable (those that are achievable at the home-brew level anyway). Whacking it in the fridge will work but only for as long as it stays cold. As soon as it warms up it will start fermenting again.

You are probably best letting it ferment right out then back sweetening as you serve (teaspoon of honey in the glass works well).

Stopping it at 1.040 will leave it VERY sweet. Generally a sweet cider will be 1.020 or less. Usually around 1.010-1.016. If you let it finish it will likely get down to 1.000 or close to that.

You'll probably end up with something a lot stronger than you wanted, more wine strength. A nice aged cyser as a white wine is very very nice with dinner...

Cheers
Dave

 

[SuiCIDER]

If you want it sweet and carbonated then your best bet is to either buy a kegging system or read up about bottle pasteurisation. There's a thread here where I describe the process but a quick google search will help out as well. As for 7%... I don't think so. 1.094 fermented dry will give you around 13% ABV. For 7% you will need to stop it at around 1.040 mark, which is usually much too sweet for the majority of people. Still, taste it and see what you think, it's all up for interpretation, everyone is different. Most people like to have a sweet cider at around 1.010 - 1.020.

Also, if you're smelling some sulfur you could always add some yeast nutrient in with some warm water.

 

[Airgead]

I'll give my usual safety warning about bottle pasteurisation - heating pressurised glass bottles is really, REALLY dangerous. If you do this, use PET bottles or invest in one of those bomb disposal suits. Better still, just don't do it. Its really frickin dangerous. The beverage industry never, ever bottle pasteurises.

Cheers
Dave

 

[SuiCIDER]

I've never had a screw up. Yet, it is a good idea to be EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS.

 

[kenour]

If you want it sweet and carbonated then your best bet is to either buy a kegging system or read up about bottle pasteurisation. There's a thread here where I describe the process but a quick google search will help out as well. As for 7%... I don't think so. 1.094 fermented dry will give you around 13% ABV. For 7% you will need to stop it at around 1.040 mark, which is usually much too sweet for the majority of people. Still, taste it and see what you think, it's all up for interpretation, everyone is different. Most people like to have a sweet cider at around 1.010 - 1.020.

Also, if you're smelling some sulfur you could always add some yeast nutrient in with some warm water.

Thanks all for the replies guys. It's sitting at 1.040 at the moment, and yes, it's sweet alright I might let it go a wee bit further to say 8%, I'm after a sweet robust cyser. If I was to rack it into a 23lt glass carboy with some campden tablets that should stop the yeast reproducing right? Or is that frowned upon? I would love to get something like a strongbow white

I have looked at bottle pasteurisation, planned on doing it when I make pasata. So may give it a go.

So I suppose I want to achieve 3 things:
Stop fermentation at around 7-9%ish
Make it as clear as possible.
Have it sparkling.

I hear some people will rack and let it clear, then bottle it and let it continue to ferment for 24 hours (for bubbles), then heat pasteurise. I suppose I could pop it in the fridge now to stall fermentation and let it clear over a couple of weeks? Then rack into the carboy and let it clear for another couple of weeks in the fridge? Then bottle, let get warm 24 hours (for bubbles) then heat pasteurise? Have probably gone about this the wrong way...

I just fail to understand how you keep something sweet when the yeast just wants to convert all the sugars.

Maybe I should be asking how you would go about making a strong (7-9%), sweet, carbonated cyser from scratch and do that next time!

Cheers :beer:

 

[Airgead]

I just fail to understand how you keep something sweet when the yeast just wants to convert all the sugars.

Maybe I should be asking how you would go about making a strong (7-9%), sweet, carbonated cyser from scratch and do that next time!

Cheers :beer:

Ahhh... there you have it. One of the hardest problems in brewing.

With beers its easy to make something sweeter. Malt has a proportion of unfermentable sugars and you can control your mash etc to make more or less of those depending on whether you want a sweet or dry beer.

With ciders and meads, you basically have all fermentable sugar. The yeast will chew right through it and give you a dry brew.

There are a few ways around this - you can add some unfermentable sugar (lactose is popular but not for those who ate lactose intolerant). You can try to stop the yeast early using various techniques (with varying levels of effectiveness, ease and safety) or you can select a yeast strain that has a max alcohol tolerance lower than the potential alcohol in the starting wort. So if you have an alc% of 10% say, you select a yeast that tops out at 9% so you will end up with a 9% drink and some residual sugars. I do that all the time for sweet meads. The problem is that most yeasts will take up to 12% so this really only works for wines and because the yeast has topped out it won't carbonate naturally.

If I were you, the unfermentable sugar route would be the easiest and least prone to error. If you can't tolerate lactose (like my missus) there are other unfermentable sugars around. Apparently pear juice has a fairly high proportion of them so a percentage of pear juice in your cider will help. There are also *horror* artificial sweeteners that people also use.

Or you can learn to like dry cider...

Cheers
Dave

 

[InCider]

Or you can learn to like dry cider...

Cheers
Dave

I have. Now I rarely make a sweet cider at all! Champagne yeast is as dry as I could handle it but wine yeast works well.

 

[kenour]

Apparently pear juice has a fairly high proportion of them so a percentage of pear juice in your cider will help.

This batch is about 1/5th pear juice, so that should help with the sweetness then. I'll just let it ferment out and see what I get.

I'll remember to use a low ABV tolerance yeast next time instead of champagne yeast, and make sure the mix isn't too sweet initially.

Instead of adding a teaspoon of sugar or carbonation drops, I'm planning on priming with honey.

Probably better to batch prime for as I'm planning on bottling into pint bottles, I saw a formula somewhere, so many cups of honey per gallon or something, will have to search again.

Whatever the result, this has been good fun an I'll definitely be doing it again... Especially since I just won this auction on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...em=300539546349

Cheers.

 

[kenour]

I have. Now I rarely make a sweet cider at all! Champagne yeast is as dry as I could handle it but wine yeast works well.

Will use CY17 next time I did buy some, but chickened out at the last minute and went for Champagne (SN9 I'm told is Champagne?).

 

[kenour]

Racked into a 23L carboy today, kind of a dehydrated piss yellow

Had some trouble with the stopper popping out, even after drying thoroughly, it's all the local place had.

Had a look around and these seem to be the chop:
http://www.homebru.com.au/index.php?main_p...products_id=324

Can anyone vouch for them?

 

[Greg.L]

You need to fill it right into the neck, right now you have too much headspace. It will take a few months to age to a smooth cider so keeping oxygen away is your main concern.

Greg

 

[kenour]

You need to fill it right into the neck, right now you have too much headspace. It will take a few months to age to a smooth cider so keeping oxygen away is your main concern.

Greg

That's all that came out of the fermenter unfortunately, are you saying I should top up with water or something?

 

[Greg.L]

Water would be ok if you don't have any cider to use. You won't dilute it much and you started with a high OG anyway.
Oxygen is the enemy of cider, causes most of the problems that occur.

Greg

 

[Airgead]

Judging by the colour its probably still fermenting a bit. In which case oxygen won't be a problem. The fermentation will produce enough co2 to purge the head space. Small amounts will leak in through the stopper and airlock but that will hapopen with a full to the top carboy anyway.

Cheers
Dave

 

[kenour]

Judging by the colour its probably still fermenting a bit. In which case oxygen won't be a problem. The fermentation will produce enough co2 to purge the head space. Small amounts will leak in through the stopper and airlock but that will hapopen with a full to the top carboy anyway.

Cheers
Dave

Yeah it is. Hadn't bubbled for a couple of days, but as soon as I racked started up for a couple of hours then stopped. I thought the CO2 would purge the O2 as it's still being created. I think after this clears I'll bottle directly from the carboy, if I can find somewhere to buy something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Auto-Siphon-Pump-Bee...F6/ref=lh_ni_t_
They won't deliver to Oz.

 

[Greg.L]

If your going to bottle soon then it's not such an issue. I think cyser takes a fair while to clear, and needs a lot of ageing. Small volumes like 20L oxidise very easily and quickly, however if you like taking risks then go for it.

Greg

 

[adryargument]

Yeah it is. Hadn't bubbled for a couple of days, but as soon as I racked started up for a couple of hours then stopped. I thought the CO2 would purge the O2 as it's still being created. I think after this clears I'll bottle directly from the carboy, if I can find somewhere to buy something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Auto-Siphon-Pump-Bee...F6/ref=lh_ni_t_
They won't deliver to Oz.

Any of the suppliers at the top of the page will be able to provide them.

 

[kenour]

If your going to bottle soon then it's not such an issue. I think cyser takes a fair while to clear, and needs a lot of ageing. Small volumes like 20L oxidise very easily and quickly, however if you like taking risks then go for it.

Greg

Whoa whoa whoa! Risks? I'm quite risk averse. After all the hard work so far I don't want to botch my first batch. First of all, I don't know what risk I'm taking? Also, after identifying said risk, could one of you deft hands guide me in the right direction?

 

[kenour]

Any of the suppliers at the top of the page will be able to provide them.

Thanks mate! Found it
http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8799

I'm after these too:
http://www.amazon.com/Drilled-Rubber-Stopp...6124&sr=8-1

Shattered they don't deliver to Oz either!

Can't find them on any of the sponsor sites.